European Politics

I had the opportunity to watch the lieutenant-governor (the queen's official representative in my province) in action up close more than a few times. Very impressed by his inspirational presence and the effect he had on those around him. And I'm sure that is magnified many times when you get actual royalty involved.

So I totally get the value of the position, particularly when you get the right person in place.

It's just that the idea of a person being elevated into a position of privilege and/or importance BY THE STATE only because of their BIRTH is entirely contrary to the principles of democracy. Then you factor in the cost and I just don't get it. Our lieutenant governors are generally appointed because of their track records of service. We all get that it's a figurehead position, but if it is about the office and the good it can achieve, why don't we just appoint people to the role of queen as well?
 
mckindog said:
We all get that it's a figurehead position, but if it is about the office and the good it can achieve, why don't we just appoint people to the role?
Click to expand...

Beats me. Royalty is an antiquated, pre-democratic and essentially misanthropic concept. The whole idea that somebody is, by birth, superior to anyone else speaks against the very fundaments of everything I believe in. They may be nice, compassionate and have sweet smiles, but nothing gives anybody the right to elevate them above the rest of the people, unless it's the people themselves.
 
mckindog said:
It's just that the idea of a person being elevated into a position of privilege and/or importance BY THE STATE only because of their BIRTH is entirely contrary to the principles of democracy.
Click to expand...
I have told a few time by now that the role of the monarch involves no political power anymore. So which principles of democracy are we exactly talking about? Shoot!

I don't think anyone else wants to be a monarch. Even if it can be seen as an honour, it's a mighty burden as well.
 
Forostar said:
I have told a few time by now that the role of the monarch involves no political power anymore. So which principles of democracy are we exactly talking about?
Click to expand...

About the principle that everyone is equal, before the law. This is not the case with a monarch. They are put into a privileged position by birth. This privilege may not be connected to any real powers anymore, but it still is a privilege. The person who has the privilege did nothing to deserve it. They just get it from the fact that they were born that way.

I don't think anyone else wants to be a monarch. Even if it's an honour, it's a mighty burden as well.
Click to expand...

Poor little rich kid. How come none of the kings or queens of this world reject the crown when they are being offered it? Well, maybe the big palace, land ownership, medial exposure and sense of superiority over others has something to do with it.

Aristocracy is wrong.
 
Forostar said:
I have told a few time by now that the role of the monarch involves no political power anymore. So which principles of democracy are we exactly talking about?

I don't think anyone else wants to be a monarch. Even if it's an honour, it's a mighty burden as well.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking political power, Im talking the hotels, travel, fancy dinners, clothes, the chances to meet people of power and influence, the entourage of servants and aides, the never having to do your laundry, or wait for a table at a restaurant, or deal with crappy service, or all the other perks that come with the job - a job you never had to apply for, or compete for.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is a tough job, I just don't understand how a democracy can simply hand it to someone.
I bet if it hit the open market plenty of people would apply. And some might be better qualified than whoever the Queen's heir might be.
 
Forostar said:
Which has changed, especially in the EU.
Click to expand...

I don't know how many edits I missed there, but no, it hasn't. The very fact that monarchy still exists in Europe, even if the monarchs don't have powers anymore, is proof of that. Nobody deserves privilege by birth. End of story.
 
Willem Alexander's brother (2nd son of Beatrix; the one who is in a coma) rejected it by marrying someone without asking permission. OK, he wasn't the first in line, but still. Not everyone of Royal birth is looking forward to such a prospect.
Perun said:
About the principle that everyone is equal, before the law. This is not the case with a monarch. They are put into a privileged position by birth. This privilege may not be connected to any real powers anymore, but it still is a privilege. The person who has the privilege did nothing to deserve it. They just get it from the fact that they were born that way..
Click to expand...
Is this purely about the privilege of having wealth? How can this be changed? Everyone with possessions inherited by family should give it (back) to the people?
 
Forostar said:
Is this purely about the privilege of having wealth? How can this be changed? Everyone with possessions inherited by family should give it (back) to the people?
Click to expand...

That is the exact reason I capped "By The State" in my earlier post. This is about people being given a privileged state role on no other qualification than their birth certificate.
And I haven't seen you respond to that yet.
 
mckindog said:
That is the exact reason I capped "By The State" in my earlier post. This is about people being given a privileged state role on no other qualification than their birth certificate.
And I haven't seen you respond to that yet.
Click to expand...
Why do you make it so important that it is a state role? This is not a regular state role. That state role in my country is entirely symbolic. No political power involved. I guess the main thing for you is that no one else can be it.
mckindog said:
I'm not talking political power, Im talking the hotels, travel, fancy dinners, clothes, the chances to meet people of power and influence, the entourage of servants and aides, the never having to do your laundry, or wait for a table at a restaurant, or deal with crappy service, or all the other perks that come with the job - a job you never had to apply for, or compete for.
Click to expand...
This goes for every child of a non-royal multi millionaire as well. Even more. Businessmen have power. There's more nepotism and privileges involved compared to what's happening in the Royal family.
 
Funny comment found on YouTube:

Electing a president every 4 years is so much more expensive than changing queen/king every 30/40 years!
And look at the politics: US having a democratic president, but republican congres. No progress at all.

:)
 
The queen is handed her privilege by the state, and the state is supposed to be blind to things like race, gender and family.
If the state gave all the diplomatic jobs or public works jobs to the same family, there would be outrage.
Yet it is OK that all the royalty jobs are handed out on that basis?
 
I have no problem with other countries keeping a monarchy, I would assume that (at least in the EU) there is a mechanism to eliminate them should the need arise. There is a danger of having a total moron as the ceremonial head of state which would reflect poorly on the country, I would see that is the major downside. It has certainly happened in the past. So long as the people can elect those that hold actual power, even if they vote for split power ... that is the main thing.
 
Look, principles are important, but as long as no harm is done (anymore), and no power is held, some principles should imo not be made too important.

In the USA people are very busy with their principle of freedom to own a weapon. In the 21st century we have learned this can harm society.

So imo people should make that principle not more important than the reality they are living in.
 
Is there not a Prince/Princess/spouse of the monarch/aides/servants/drivers/guards ... court jesters :) .... whoever maintains the official residence(s)
 
Perhaps I am naive but I thought all people in the world can apply for such "aiding" jobs. Unless butlers also go from father to son. Never heard of that, but I might check it out. ;-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top