There's my answer: It has its value, it's not (directly) hurting anybody, and people like it.
That's a valid argument, really the only one I've ever heard on this subject.
But I'm with Perun in this one.
European Politics
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
There's my answer: It has its value, it's not (directly) hurting anybody, and people like it.
That's a valid argument, really the only one I've ever heard on this subject.
But I'm with Perun in this one.
Bearfan has no problem with other countries keeping their monarchs and neither do I.
It's not my place to tell the British or the Dutch or any other similar country what to do.
It's not a crucial issue for me, but I do not support the fact my country has a monarch because I think the message it sends is wrong.
It's not my place to tell the British or the Dutch or any other similar country what to do.
It's not a crucial issue for me, but I do not support the fact my country has a monarch because I think the message it sends is wrong.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I think that is the right approach ... I certainly have opinions about what other nations do, but in general have no very strong opinions because I do not live there ... my posting at all in this thread is more curiosity than anything. I have been to Europe and enjoy my time there and have origins from there ... but any country having a monarchy really has zero affect on me.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Now - who pays the staff has to be quite irrelevant for the monarchy/republic question? A president would have the same staff and probably the same material privileges. Drivers/chefs/guards. I'm quite sure Barack Obama has a bigger staff than Queen Beatrix.
As for the question of monarchy itself. I agree that there is an inherently undemocratic side to the idea. Even though the King/Queen in the remaining European monarchies only serves as a representative and has little or no political power, the position is one of trust, and it does not really make sense that it should be inherited.
Personally I would vote for republic if there was a referendum in Norway. The problem is I don't know if I'd like any of today's top politicians to become president. As a representative for the country, I like our current King, Harald V, better than any of the party leaders and ministers. I don't think there will be demand for a referendum until we get a monarch who turns out to be a complete wanker.
No, it's not purely about wealth. It's about holding a public office without being appointed to it by the people. The actual competences don't matter here. I would have no problem with a Dutch monarchy if you, Forostar, were eligible to become King. You are not, however, therefore I consider it a deeply undemocratic, by idea misanthropic institution that has no place in a 21st century republic.
That may be a crucial point. Royalty is seldom subjected to the same intense criticism given elected officials.
I think on some level a king or queen allows people to cling to their desire for a noble leader.
The media, the opposition — the entire political system — make it a lot tougher to project that same image on a president.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Certainly, the only reason I brought it up is that there is an occasional story about some people (how vast or what influence they have, I do not know) in the UK complaining about the budget allocated for the royals when
[insert some allegedly underfunded program/budget crisis here] could use that money ... these countries would obviously allocate funds to the elected head of state/PM as well. Mainly curious if that is an issue brought up against having a monarch or is it reasoned that if there were not a monarch, there would be a President that would have a similar role/budget allocated to them?
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
In Norway, most seem to agree that a President would fill pretty much the same role as a monarch - mainly as the upper representative for the country rather than the main political leader. A leader who is above the everyday quarrels of political parties. Some do in fact use the money spent as an argument against the monarchy, but most are well aware that an elected president would have many of the same material privileges.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
You all have fair criticism guys. I guess I am less bothered because Queen Beatrix felt like a (grand)mother of the nation. Quoting the Washington Post: "She was a calming influence on society, particularly in the aftermath of the 2002 assassination of populist politician Pim Fortuyn and the murder two years later of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a Muslim extremist."
I am glad we have such a figure, even if they and their staff have to be paid (by the tax payers). Such value is more important to me than the principle itself.
And I don't think everyone is suited for such a job. An upcoming Queen or King (at least Willem-Alexander) gets "training" from their 18th birthday. And even if someone has wealth and personnel, we should not forget the lack of freedom (of expression) that is involved.
I am glad we have such a figure, even if they and their staff have to be paid (by the tax payers). Such value is more important to me than the principle itself.
And I don't think everyone is suited for such a job. An upcoming Queen or King (at least Willem-Alexander) gets "training" from their 18th birthday. And even if someone has wealth and personnel, we should not forget the lack of freedom (of expression) that is involved.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Fair enough, I am not really arguing with you, but am really curios about this. Could another leader perform the same function? Certainly the US has had it's share of tragedies and the President, even though they are stuck in the daily muck of politics, generally is able to rise above that and be see as that leader even by people who did not vote (or did not like) them. I am thinking Bush in the immediate 9/11 aftermath, Roosevelt post Pearl Harbor, etc. Over time, they lost that support as the details of what to do went back in the muck, but in the time of need, were able to demonstrate that type of leadership/moral authority.
Ariana
Black-and-white leopard
UK ministers are planning a negative ad campaign aimed to deter Bulgarians and Romanians from "flooding" Great Britain. The move comes following the European Commission's ruling that Britain cannot unilaterally require visas for Romanians and Bulgarians.
The proposal quickly took on to social media and suggestions started piling up. Here are some of them:
“Picture of an angry skinhead with the tagline ‘Your friendly neighbourhood racist’”; “Just surround the UK with crime scene tape”; “Tell them that Brits hate children and hate continental Europeans”; “Just tell them it's full of bloody Bulgarians and Romanians”; "Want to be owned and run by the Russians again? Come to Britain!".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/28/migrants-britain-rubbish-posters
I say this is compete bullshit. The only thing they can achieve with that is making fools of themselves.
The proposal quickly took on to social media and suggestions started piling up. Here are some of them:
“Picture of an angry skinhead with the tagline ‘Your friendly neighbourhood racist’”; “Just surround the UK with crime scene tape”; “Tell them that Brits hate children and hate continental Europeans”; “Just tell them it's full of bloody Bulgarians and Romanians”; "Want to be owned and run by the Russians again? Come to Britain!".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/28/migrants-britain-rubbish-posters
I say this is compete bullshit. The only thing they can achieve with that is making fools of themselves.
Merkel Loses Minister: Schavan Steps Down amidst Plagiarism Scandal
One of German Chancellor Angela Merkel's closest confidants had to step down on Saturday following a plagiarism scandal. Stripped of her doctorate on Tuesday, Annette Schavan became a heavy burden to her party as Germany heads into an election year.
Good riddance, and it took way too long. For over three years, we had a minister of education and research who had a plagiarised doctorate! Just take a moment to let that sink in and think about what that means for a country that pretends to consider education its most valuable resource.
By the way, Schavan is the fourth federal minister in the Merkel II government to get the boot. For this and other reasons, I'm baffled that this government seems to have survived for an entire election period (elections are this September). By early 2011, it seemed only to be a matter of time before it would break apart completely.
One of German Chancellor Angela Merkel's closest confidants had to step down on Saturday following a plagiarism scandal. Stripped of her doctorate on Tuesday, Annette Schavan became a heavy burden to her party as Germany heads into an election year.
Good riddance, and it took way too long. For over three years, we had a minister of education and research who had a plagiarised doctorate! Just take a moment to let that sink in and think about what that means for a country that pretends to consider education its most valuable resource.
By the way, Schavan is the fourth federal minister in the Merkel II government to get the boot. For this and other reasons, I'm baffled that this government seems to have survived for an entire election period (elections are this September). By early 2011, it seemed only to be a matter of time before it would break apart completely.
Amazon criticized over temp workers in Germany
It's alleged that temp workers at Amazon's logistic centers suffer low wages and poor living conditions. Some have even called for a boycott of the online retailer on social networks. But will anything change?
There was a report on German television about a week ago exposing the conditions detailed in the article. In a nutshell, Amazon in Germany employs slave workers and has them guarded by nazi security. Amazon has since gotten rid of the security firm, but I doubt that there will be any profound changes.
I am really torn on whether I should boycott Amazon or not. I am not a rich person, and some items that I do need can only be found there. It is not only convenience, but lack of alternative for me. I buy most things offline anyway, and use Amazon only for those things I can't get anywhere else. Also, I can think of hardly any major retailer, on- or offline, whom I wouldn't put it past employing similar policies. Not in Germany, anyway.
It's alleged that temp workers at Amazon's logistic centers suffer low wages and poor living conditions. Some have even called for a boycott of the online retailer on social networks. But will anything change?
There was a report on German television about a week ago exposing the conditions detailed in the article. In a nutshell, Amazon in Germany employs slave workers and has them guarded by nazi security. Amazon has since gotten rid of the security firm, but I doubt that there will be any profound changes.
I am really torn on whether I should boycott Amazon or not. I am not a rich person, and some items that I do need can only be found there. It is not only convenience, but lack of alternative for me. I buy most things offline anyway, and use Amazon only for those things I can't get anywhere else. Also, I can think of hardly any major retailer, on- or offline, whom I wouldn't put it past employing similar policies. Not in Germany, anyway.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
A row is threatening between the Netherlands and Turkey because a Dutch lesbian couple is raising their Turkish foster son.
- - -
AMSTERDAM (AP) — A Dutch lesbian couple have gone into hiding with their foster son after the boy's biological parents said on television in Turkey that they object to the pair taking care of their child.
The matter is threatening to overshadow an official visit by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to the Netherlands next week. Lodewijk Asscher, the Dutch vice prime minister, told reporters Friday that the issue is an internal Dutch matter and that political interference from Turkey is "inappropriate."
The 9-year-old boy identified by his first name, Yunus, was removed from his biological parents' care — in the Netherlands — while he was still a baby, and eventually placed in the care of the lesbian couple, who live in The Hague.
His biological mother, Nurgul Azeroglu, appeared on a Turkish television program earlier this month and called on Erdogan to intervene in the case. She acknowledged having accidentally dropped the child from a poorly fastened carrying bag once — apparently part of the reason he was removed from her care.
Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad reported that two other children were also to be taken away from the family in 2008, but they then traveled to Turkey to prevent that from happening.
Prominent Turkish politicians have recently spoken out against children of Turkish ancestry being raised by Christians, homosexuals, or others whose values are rejected by their biological parents.
Asscher praised the foster parents for taking on a "child in danger" and defended Dutch social service policies.
"The selection of a foster family in the Netherlands is a careful process," he said. "We don't choose foster parents on the basis of race or heritage, but on whether a child is in good hands with them."
Child social services in The Hague said there was no specific threat against Yunus or his foster parents, but he has been kept home from school as a precaution since the interview aired.
The Hague Youth Services Agency has decided it is better for Yunus and his foster parents "to stay at another address for a time, partly in connection with the visit of the prime minister next week," spokeswoman Tanja van Dijk said in a telephone interview with national broadcaster NOS . "For safety, and also because of the quiet that both Yunus and his foster parents of course now need."
Asscher, who repeated several times at his weekly news conference that Yunus had been "in danger" before he was taken into foster care, said it is "exceptionally sad" that the boy and his foster family are now in hiding.
"It's not right. People who are willing to take care of somebody else's child deserve our admiration," he said.
- - -
source:
http://news.yahoo.com/dutch-lesbians-raising-turkish-boy-hiding-171356347.html
- - -
AMSTERDAM (AP) — A Dutch lesbian couple have gone into hiding with their foster son after the boy's biological parents said on television in Turkey that they object to the pair taking care of their child.
The matter is threatening to overshadow an official visit by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to the Netherlands next week. Lodewijk Asscher, the Dutch vice prime minister, told reporters Friday that the issue is an internal Dutch matter and that political interference from Turkey is "inappropriate."
The 9-year-old boy identified by his first name, Yunus, was removed from his biological parents' care — in the Netherlands — while he was still a baby, and eventually placed in the care of the lesbian couple, who live in The Hague.
His biological mother, Nurgul Azeroglu, appeared on a Turkish television program earlier this month and called on Erdogan to intervene in the case. She acknowledged having accidentally dropped the child from a poorly fastened carrying bag once — apparently part of the reason he was removed from her care.
Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad reported that two other children were also to be taken away from the family in 2008, but they then traveled to Turkey to prevent that from happening.
Prominent Turkish politicians have recently spoken out against children of Turkish ancestry being raised by Christians, homosexuals, or others whose values are rejected by their biological parents.
Asscher praised the foster parents for taking on a "child in danger" and defended Dutch social service policies.
"The selection of a foster family in the Netherlands is a careful process," he said. "We don't choose foster parents on the basis of race or heritage, but on whether a child is in good hands with them."
Child social services in The Hague said there was no specific threat against Yunus or his foster parents, but he has been kept home from school as a precaution since the interview aired.
The Hague Youth Services Agency has decided it is better for Yunus and his foster parents "to stay at another address for a time, partly in connection with the visit of the prime minister next week," spokeswoman Tanja van Dijk said in a telephone interview with national broadcaster NOS . "For safety, and also because of the quiet that both Yunus and his foster parents of course now need."
Asscher, who repeated several times at his weekly news conference that Yunus had been "in danger" before he was taken into foster care, said it is "exceptionally sad" that the boy and his foster family are now in hiding.
"It's not right. People who are willing to take care of somebody else's child deserve our admiration," he said.
- - -
source:
http://news.yahoo.com/dutch-lesbians-raising-turkish-boy-hiding-171356347.html
Albie
Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
OK, so I apologise for my absence (again) but I thought I thought I might just ask a simple question. As there are many Europeans on here and people outside of Europe that are (possibly) pro-EU, something happened the other day that made me pretty angry and form the basis of the question:
Give me one reason, not two or three, but one, why we should not get shot of this whole stinking EU monster?
We in the UK have been promised, a referendum (yeah, with loads of clauses that suggest it may not actually take place) on leaving the EU come the next parliament and right now I want this to happen tomorrow so I can tell them to sod off. What happened? This:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...t-as-eurozone-agrees-10-billion-bail-out.html
What right does the state have to dip into peoples savings to take a large percentage of it to pay for failing banks? Let them fail, I say. I'm sick of Govt's using state money to prop up banks - it's a big part of why we are in this mess.
Give me one reason, not two or three, but one, why we should not get shot of this whole stinking EU monster?
We in the UK have been promised, a referendum (yeah, with loads of clauses that suggest it may not actually take place) on leaving the EU come the next parliament and right now I want this to happen tomorrow so I can tell them to sod off. What happened? This:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...t-as-eurozone-agrees-10-billion-bail-out.html
What right does the state have to dip into peoples savings to take a large percentage of it to pay for failing banks? Let them fail, I say. I'm sick of Govt's using state money to prop up banks - it's a big part of why we are in this mess.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21819990
"With this deal, the responsible people are partly included in those countries and not only the taxpayers in other countries," ...
+
... If the levy goes ahead, it will affect many non-Cypriots with bank accounts, including UK expatriates.
However, depositors in the overseas arms of Cypriot banks will not be hit. Bank of Cyprus UK and Laiki Bank UK both confirmed on their websites that there would be no impact.
Chancellor George Osborne said the UK would compensate any government employees and military personnel whose bank accounts were affected.
The levy itself will not take effect until Tuesday, following a public holiday, but action is being taken to control electronic money transfers over the weekend. ...
- - - -
So, thanks to this British idea, the whole UK needs to pay this way.
Q&A Cyprus bailout
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21817197
Why the bank levy?
When countries get an international bailout, they are often expected to raise funds themselves, by raising taxes or selling state-owned assets.
The levy on bank deposits is playing the same role. It is intended to reduce the size of the bailout and therefore the amount of new debt Cyprus has to take on. But there is almost certainly a political aspect too. In the eurozone, there are concerns about money-laundering in Cyprus and the presence of large amounts of Russian-owned money in the banks. Germany is reputed to be especially unhappy about the idea of using taxpayers' money to rescue them.
UK to help troops
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21820237
- Depositors with under 100,000 euros deposited must pay 6.75%
- Those with more than 100,000 in their accounts must pay 9.9%
- Depositors will be compensated with the equivalent amount in shares in their banks
- The levy is a one-off measure
"With this deal, the responsible people are partly included in those countries and not only the taxpayers in other countries," ...
+
... If the levy goes ahead, it will affect many non-Cypriots with bank accounts, including UK expatriates.
However, depositors in the overseas arms of Cypriot banks will not be hit. Bank of Cyprus UK and Laiki Bank UK both confirmed on their websites that there would be no impact.
Chancellor George Osborne said the UK would compensate any government employees and military personnel whose bank accounts were affected.
The levy itself will not take effect until Tuesday, following a public holiday, but action is being taken to control electronic money transfers over the weekend. ...
- - - -
So, thanks to this British idea, the whole UK needs to pay this way.
Q&A Cyprus bailout
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21817197
Why the bank levy?
When countries get an international bailout, they are often expected to raise funds themselves, by raising taxes or selling state-owned assets.
The levy on bank deposits is playing the same role. It is intended to reduce the size of the bailout and therefore the amount of new debt Cyprus has to take on. But there is almost certainly a political aspect too. In the eurozone, there are concerns about money-laundering in Cyprus and the presence of large amounts of Russian-owned money in the banks. Germany is reputed to be especially unhappy about the idea of using taxpayers' money to rescue them.
UK to help troops
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21820237