European Politics

Forostar said:
Since Brexit, people rather stay in the EU rather than diving into chaos. The leave EU populist parties are getting weaker. This is one good thing coming out of Brexit.


Black Wizard, and perhaps also Cain, I fear you might have been somewhat selective in reporting election results here. Especially this year, there were several victories for progressive / left wing / social democrats in Europe. Some examples:
2019 Moldovan parliamentary election
2019 Estonian parliamentary election
2019 Slovak presidential election
2019 Finnish parliamentary election
2019 North Macedonian presidential election
November 2019 Spanish general election
2019 Danish general election
2019 Portuguese legislative election
2019 Gibraltar general election


On top of that, you may have missed something:

www.theguardian.com

A quiet revolution sweeps Europe as Greens become a political force

Unexpected success in the EU elections has turned the erstwhile ‘fringe idealists’ into potential kingmakers in Brussels
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
On election day in three European capitals at the end of May, voters swept an insurgent party to the top of the polls for the new European parliament. But, contrary to widespread media speculation in the run-up to the poll, it was not the far-right populists who triumphed at the ballot box in Brussels, Berlin and Dublin. Instead, in all these cities Green parties won the highest number of votes, spearheading a continent-wide surge that looks likely to transform their political role within Europe. [etc.]
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I wish I could share your optimism.

On a side note, participation in European elections is always significantly lower than in the national ones.
 
The EU is being used a scapegoat at a time when people feel they're nothing more than a statistic, and a traditional sense of community is in decline. That's happening because of worldwide business trends, technology, population movement (within countries as well as across borders and continents) and mass communication.

No new system of government/reduction in government influence, or attempts to re-glorify nations, is going to change that. Ironically, the EU is a buffer against the worst fallout of globalisation and the more predatory sort of big business activity. One of the biggest concerns about Brexit is that Britain is going to have no choice but to sign a very one-sided trade agreement with Trump and whatever business lobbyists are egging him on. The kind of agreement that'll let American businesses sidestep UK law when they do business with the UK.

It's just easy for political groups with an agenda to play on people's fears, blame the 'suits' and foreigners, and claim they're the true voice of the people.
 
GhostofCain said:
You used to be or you are? :confused:
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Brigantium said:
The EU is being used a scapegoat at a time when people feel they're nothing more than a statistic, and a traditional sense of community is in decline. That's happening because of worldwide business trends, technology, population movement (within countries as well as across borders and continents) and mass communication.

No new system of government/reduction in government influence, or attempts to re-glorify nations, is going to change that. Ironically, the EU is a buffer against the worst fallout of globalisation and the more predatory sort of big business activity. One of the biggest concerns about Brexit is that Britain is going to have no choice but to sign a very one-sided trade agreement with Trump and whatever business lobbyists are egging him on. The kind of agreement that'll let American businesses sidestep UK law when they do business with the UK.

It's just easy for political groups with an agenda to play on people's fears, blame the 'suits' and foreigners, and claim they're the true voice of the people.
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Propaganda. EU has become Saturn devouring his sons. I desagree.
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I don't have to argument anything at all. I am a humble man and devil worshiper and Ive got my own point of view based on REAL life situations and experience.And some knowledge on historical facts as well.There are many ilustrated pseudo-politicians here so concern on be always right on irrelevant issues instead the real problems are. Ask them.God bless you all.
 
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@Niall Kielt are you glad to have these two cheerful ladies back in business?


@srfc I see you have a General Election in a few weeks. Excited?
 
Black Wizard said:
@srfc I see you have a General Election in a few weeks. Excited?
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Not hugely, our politics is usually straightforward enough. The two main parties are centre right but neither will get enough seats to govern on their own so will have to enter into a coalition, which usually results in whatever left party goes into coalition with them being blamed for any subsequent fuck ups. Labour was annihilated at the previous election because of this and it will be intersting to see if they can recover from this. I'd usually give Labour my first preference and probably will again but their candidate in my constituency is a massive gimp.
 
srfc said:
Not hugely, our politics is usually straightforward enough. The two main parties are centre right but neither will get enough seats to govern on their own so will have to enter into a coalition, which usually results in whatever left party goes into coalition with them being blamed for any subsequent fuck ups. Labour was annihilated at the previous election because of this and it will be intersting to see if they can recover from this. I'd usually give Labour my first preference and probably will again but their candidate in my constituency is a massive gimp.
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What's the point in having two centre right parties as the main parties? Surely they stand for more or less exactly the same things. With two Tories running the show it's no wonder the Irish economy went tits up ten years ago.

I was reading that both parties won't countenance going into a coalition with Sinn Feinn, so at least there's some sanity there.
 
Black Wizard said:
What's the point in having two centre right parties as the main parties? Surely they stand for more or less exactly the same things. With two Tories running the show it's no wonder the Irish economy went tits up ten years ago.

I was reading that both parties won't countenance going into a coalition with Sinn Feinn, so at least there's some sanity there.
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There was the small matter of a civil war and both parties emerged from the opposite sides, Fine Gael emerged from those who supported the treaty with the UK which established the then Irish Free State, and Fianna Fail emerged from those who initially opposed it. Both would be a bit more centre leaning than the tories but not by much. They also get their support from slightly different constituencies, Fine Gael would get more support from middle class urban types and big farmers, while Fianna Fail would get support from the same sort of working class people who'd vote Tory in the UK.

They say they won't go into government with Sinn Fein but they will if they need the seats. It's also pathetic to expect loyalists to be in government in Northern Ireland with Sinn Fein but to then claim Sinn Fein aren't fit to be in government down here.

This image is from before the last election but is a good illustration of Irish politics.

110941143-c840b9e4-c018-404e-aa10-5547698cab0c.jpg


Renua, are basically 2 or 3 nutters who left Fine Gael because they opposed abortion, they all lost their seats at the last election and I doubt they'll be running again and if they are they won't win any seats. People before Profit and Anti-Austerity Alliance are trots/socialist workers head the balls while the Social Democrats are people who left Labour after they sold out in the previous government, probably won't get a lot of seats.
 
srfc said:
There was the small matter of a civil war and both parties emerged from the opposite sides, Fine Gael emerged from those who supported the treaty with the UK which established the then Irish Free State, and Fianna Fail emerged from those who initially opposed it. Both would be a bit more centre leaning than the tories but not by much. They also get their support from slightly different constituencies, Fine Gael would get more support from middle class urban types and big farmers, while Fianna Fail would get support from the same sort of working class people
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I thought the civil war might come into it. I read a bit about the aftermath of the civil war a couple of months ago with regards to a Conservative MP who compared the Brexit deal to the Irish treaty, with the author expressing some scepticism that a Conservative MP would quote IRA leader Michael Collins. The article said that Ireland was a poor, conservative (lower case 'c') country badly affected by emigration. I guess that the conservatism largely comes from the power of the Catholic Church which has waned in recent years for various reasons, but I'm surprised that the two main parties are still centre right. Has there ever been a credible left wing party who ever got at least close to government?

srfc said:
They say they won't go into government with Sinn Fein but they will if they need the seats. It's also pathetic to expect loyalists to be in government in Northern Ireland with Sinn Fein but to then claim Sinn Fein aren't fit to be in government down here
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To be fair, my weak understanding of Northern Ireland is that power sharing is mandatory under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement so they have to be in government with each other even if they hate each other. I take your point though. There doesn't seem to have been any consistency in their approach e.g. "we want to stay aligned with Great Britain, but don't force your unholy abortion and gay marriage laws on us".

srfc said:
Renua, are basically 2 or 3 nutters who left Fine Gael because they opposed abortion, they all lost their seats at the last election and I doubt they'll be running again and if they are they won't win any seats. People before Profit and Anti-Austerity Alliance are trots/socialist workers head the balls while the Social Democrats are people who left Labour after they sold out in the previous government, probably won't get a lot of seats.
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This reminds me of the classic scene from Monty Python's Life of Brian, which I think was actually based on all the paramilitary organizations in Northern Ireland.


SPLITTERS!
 
Black Wizard said:
Has there ever been a credible left wing party who ever got at least close to government?
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Governments have usually been coalitions, I think Fianna Fail have been the only party to ever have sole power, and they haven't held that for a long time, probably since the 70's. Labour have quite often got a significant vote, they got a larger vote than Fianna Fail in the 2011 election, and it looked like Fianna Fail might be replaced as a significant party. But then Labour, as part of a coalition, bore the backlash from FG's austerity policies, in particular attempts to bring in water charges. Similar to what happened to the Lib Dems in the UK in the same period. The greens have also suffered in that regard. As did the Progressive Democrats who were a more economically extreme right wing party who were in coalition for most of the 90's and 2000's with Fianna Fail but were wiped out by the economic crash.
 
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