European Politics

I'd love to steer clear of the EU political debate and national vitriol, but in my line of work, that's not going to be easy. I wonder if they'll use the intense public debate to sneak something else through...like more NHS restructuring/privatisation or hiding the fact that the new Universal Credit benefit is a spectacular failure before it's even got underway.
 
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"The moment when humanity died"

To hell with the Turkish military! They shoot civilians with white flags. Thank God a cameraman didn't want to stop filming when it happened, even after he got shot. They arrested him when he left the hospital.

A disturbing video has emerged from Turkey that shows security forces opening fire without warning on a group of Kurdish civilians waving white flags and carrying two dead bodies. Two people were killed and ten others injured.

Dutch report / interview in Turkish with camera man
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http://nos.nl/artikel/2088119-besch...-over-moment-waarop-menselijkheid-stierf.html
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German news article in English language:
http://www.dw.com/en/cameraman-shot-by-turkish-police-to-be-arrested-on-terror-charges/a-19005004
 
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I sincerely hope that Britain votes to remain in the EU. The amount of propagation and influence the baseless claims that Britain is best isolating itself is frankly terrifying at this point, especially in a modern, supposedly progressive society. The EU is far from perfect, but Britain's role within the group is essential to its credibility and stability; by leaving we damage relations with our closest allies, make trade far more strenuous, prevent advancements in diplomacy within Europe, and cripple progression, amongst several other factors.

Parties like UKIP sicken me; they play to the tired and harmful ideology of nationalism and are completely uncooperative in trying to address their so-called problems within the Union. Case in point, when UKIP delegates attended an EU summit, they turned their backs on the entire proceedings in protest; they're the equivalent of a child having a temper tantrum and are much harder to rationalize with. The only reason they remain popular is because of their shock tactics, and my suspicion that they are being funded in order to hold down a potential European superstate (which, if approached correctly, could bring about a new era of prosperity amongst Europe).
 
I'm a bit surprised that we're having a referendum. I thought the idea was that if Dave didn't get a deal then we'd vote to leave or stay, but that if he managed to get one then the government would move on.
 
He promised a referendum, though, didn't he? He'd risk defections to UKIP if he didn't do it. Maybe he thinks it's most likely to go in his favour in the current climate.
 
I think we'll probably stay. I don't think most people care enough about the EU to want to leave. The Out Campaign are very vocal, but I think they have to be.
 
Black Wizard said:
I'm a bit surprised that we're having a referendum. I thought the idea was that if Dave didn't get a deal then we'd vote to leave or stay, but that if he managed to get one then the government would move on.
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My impression was that he was using the threat of leaving to get a better deal from the EU and that a good enough deal would encourage a "stay" vote
 
Cameron proposed the campaign much earlier than I expected, and I think a lot of other people expected. I was anticipating November of this year at the earliest, but June is very close to the Assembly elections, only a month or so removed. Seems like a strategic choice to me, but that's just a theory. The deal Cameron reached was a joke, both for eurosceptics and for those who wish to remain in the Union. He attempted to meet halfway, but doesn't understand that people either hold an extreme view of whether to remain in the Union or not, or just simply aren't bothered either way.

I've considered volunteering for the Stay party, just a lack of opportunity to do so at this current time. The referendum has opened a lot of doors however, especially with my foray into the UNA.
 
bearfan said:
My impression was that he was using the threat of leaving to get a better deal from the EU and that a good enough deal would encourage a "stay" vote
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This is absolutely correct, however his 'deal' is incredibly weak and does absolutely nothing to return sovereignty to the UK, in fact it appears to have driven more people towards the Leave side. It now appears that around 50% of Conservative MPs are going to campaign for and Out vote, with Boris Johnson being the most notable figure to defy Cameron. I am glad that the Leave campaign has been given this boost as I previously felt that we would be doomed to Remain, it now seems that the race will be somewhat closer than previously predicted.
 
Boris Johnson, is that the Donald Trump lookalike that was on the news last night?

Mark my words, if the UK leaves the EU they will begin their final descent into lower power status, being seen as less than EU-participant powers like France and Germany, and even Italy, and will be seen more along the lines of a Canada or Australia in terms of regional power instead of global power. A UK all-in to the EU would be one third of an emergent superpower. Without it, the EU will surpass the UK.
 
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Sorry Brigs, sorry Cried. But:

I'l love my ass off if it goes downhill with the UK (economically) if the UK leaves the EU. And double fun if Scotland has even more valid reasons to leave the UK. Let London and their yes men (rest of England, Wales and other UK partners) sort it out themselves.
 
LooseCannon said:
Boris Johnson, is that the Donald Trump lookalike that was on the news last night?

Mark my words, if the UK leaves the EU they will begin their final descent into lower power status, being seen as less than EU-participant powers like France and Germany, and even Italy, and will be seen more along the lines of a Canada or Australia in terms of regional power instead of global power. A UK all-in to the EU would be one third of an emergent superpower. Without it, the EU will surpass the UK.
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The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world, the 5th most well-funded military, we create more jobs than the rest of the EU put together and contribute a net of over 10 billion pounds every year to the rapidly declining European Project. I think we'd be better off whilst retaining good relations with other European countries rather than being tied to a failing political union in which we have only an 8% share of the vote, a share which may get even smaller if Turkey is admitted as a member.

Forostar said:
Sorry Brigs, sorry Cried. But:

I'l love my ass off if it goes downhill with the UK (economically) if the UK leaves the EU. And double fun if Scotland has even more valid reasons to leave the UK. Let London and their yes men (rest of England, Wales and other UK partners) sort it out themselves.
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It's this vindictive belief that nations deserve economic punishment for defying the EU that leads a lot of people in the UK to believe that we would be better off out.
 
How can you expect to maintain good relations with other European countries, after you give them the middle finger? "Europe, sort out your problems, we don't want any of it, only good things."
 
UpTheIrons said:
The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world, the 5th most well-funded military, we create more jobs than the rest of the EU put together and contribute a net of over 10 billion pounds every year to the rapidly declining European Project.
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The fact that you think these things are unrelated to the UK's presence in the EU free trade zone is very sad.
 
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