European Politics

I wonder about that as well, all kinds of actions have been taking place and it seems unlikely this is all new information. I'd include France bombing command-control targets of ISIS as well, if they knew these targets existed, they should have been hit earlier. But, governments in general are not well known for being proactive

Not all of the raids had any direct connection to the case but were done in the light of the events of course and because of the power to do them under the state of emergency that the country is now in.

414 raids, 60 arrests, 75 weapons found...
 
Not all of the raids had any direct connection to the case but were done in the light of the events of course and because of the power to do them under the state of emergency that the country is now in.

414 raids, 60 arrests, 75 weapons found...
Makes sense, but they obviously already had some evidence already against these people/locations. You would think that they could have hit some of them earlier with regular warrants ... who knows, it might have minimized what happened.
 
Travis is right. The USA is full of terrorists.

Most of them are white, domestic, Christian terrorists, though.
 
I'm pretty sure that there are ISIS members among the refugees. Not many, but some for sure. ISIS would be pretty stupid not to send some of their own with the refugees. But not much can be done about them, and it definitely shouldn't stop countries from taking in true refugees.
 
This angers me a lot:

Bearfan and Travis, do you guys believe this constructed fearmongering bullshit propaganda video, only putting refugees in a bad light, not very representative for most people, who flee from danger?
 
Are you trying to say it's all lies? I haven't watched it in its entirety, but from what I've seen, the video shows many real problems. Don't reject all the uncomfortable facts.
 
It is collage of footage mostly taken out of their context. Not all extremely voiced opinions are the ones of the people who flee to Europe. On the contrary.
People flee from radical conditions.

It shows crime. But it does not prove that this crime was done by refugees. And the context? How much crime is going on done by people who already live in Europe? Is doesn't mention it, because it is an unfair, racist video.

E.g. you see footage of people who complain about their conditions, but that does not mean that a majority complains. This is purely painting a bad picture.
 
I recognize some footage from broader TV coverage and sadly the context doesn't make it look any better. There are things you just can't make excuses for. Anyway, I don't know how many proofs western Europe needs to properly take care of this uncontrolled migration, which fuels cultural conflicts. After each incident they will just keep saying the majority (migrants or local Muslims) is not harmful over and over again, leading to further problems and never understanding their mistakes.
I'm glad I live in a
Forostar said:
shit country full of dumb people
not affected by the dark side of multiculturalism.
 
Glad to be a xenophobe? Be proud of it man.

Be proud of having this idiot as Minister of Foreign Affairs:
Syrian refugees arriving in Europe should form an army which can be sent back to 'liberate' their home country, instead of 'drinking coffee in the cafes of Berlin' while western soldiers face ISIS, the Polish foreign minister has said.

Witold Waszczykowski made the suggestion on Sunday, the day after French president Francois Hollande said they would carry out a 'merciless' war against ISIS in retaliation for the Paris' massacres.

Waszczykowski is part of Poland's new right-wing, eurosceptic government, which was sworn in Monday, after signalling it would take a hard line on Europe's biggest migrant crisis since World War II.
Be proud of this:

Poland’s refugee problem is not what you think it is
Refugees and migrants who are arriving in Europe en masse are not exactly pounding at Poland’s door. They are not even knocking: In fact, there is little to suggest they even want to settle in Central Europe’s largest country. No one in Poland is struggling with an influx of people from the Middle East and Africa—but the country has a refugee problem. And the problem is a horrifying display of xenophobia and historical amnesia, demonstrated in the country’s parliament, at dinner parties, on the streets, and, overwhelmingly, on the internet.

The migration “crisis” has been a hot-button issue in the campaign for this weekend’s parliamentary election. The fear-mongering rhetoric from the likely winners is reminiscent of Nazi propaganda during World War II, when Hitler’s cronies justified their anti-Semitic policies with claims that typhus was a disease of the Jews.

“There are already signs of emergence of diseases that are highly dangerous and have not been seen in Europe for a long time: cholera on the Greek islands, dysentery in Vienna. There is also talk about other, even more severe diseases,” Jarosław Kaczyński, the leader of Law and Justice, the opposition party that is most likely to win the upcoming election said just last week. “Also there are some differences related to geography, various parasites, protozoa that are common and are not dangerous in the bodies of these people, (but) may be dangerous here. Which doesn’t mean there is a need to discriminate anyone, but you need to check.”

This idea was repeated by the newly-elected Polish president, who hails from the same political party, and covered by international media.

It seemed that the center-right government had taken a more moderate approach. They were decried by the opposition for “betraying” the so-called Visegrád Group, or the political alliance between Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary when Poland, as the only one of the four countries voted for the quota system that aims to distribute 120,000 refugees among EU members.

But on Oct. 15, the government re-aligned itself with the group and rushed to support Hungary, whose approach to the migration crisis has been widely criticized as harsh and inhumane, by sending police personnel (50-60 officers) and vehicles to help monitor the country’s border with Serbia, where the refugee flow is the heaviest.

As Konstanty Gebert points out in a New York Times op-ed, prime minister Ewa Kopacz also showed her sympathy toward a view popular among Poland’s political elites: That the country should focus on inviting Christian refugees, as they are more relatable in the majority Catholic country. As one politician from the Law and Justice Party said: “Poland is not responsible for what is happening in the Middle East and North Africa. But since we have been forced to make such decisions, it would be worth it to have control over these refugees. They should be Christians, who could hopefully assimilate in Poland.”

The political atmosphere reflects voter attitudes. The latest polls show that 55% of Poles are against the country hosting refugees (link in Polish). It’s no surprise that the worst vitriol surfaces online, unleashed by the freedom of anonymity. But the extent of the hatred has been shocking. Polish authorities opened an investigation (link in Polish) of posts calling for Poland to reopen Auschwitz, and its gas hook-up, and to send the “immigrants” there. A major news site had to close down its comments section due to hateful posts that violated Polish anti-discrimination laws.

Although perhaps appalling in their intensity, the sentiment is not entirely surprising. A sad quip is repeated among my Polish friends and family, about how Poland is anti-Semitic without any Jews, racist without any people of color, and now, anti-refugee without any refugees (or anti-Muslim without any Muslims). What is surprising, however, is how easily the hostility spreads, how easily the seed of hatred is sowed.

Some of my friends and I were shocked at Facebook posts from people we knew, young (and older), educated, “worldly” people, spreading falsehoods and misinformation, panic about all the ISIL-infiltrated masses coming Poland’s way.

Let’s be clear: the masses, most likely sans ISIL, are far away. The exodus from the Middle East and Africa is bypassing Poland, at least for now. The migrants and refugees want to be in Germany, or in Sweden, where their families, their communities are. Not in Poland, where 95% percent of the population identifies as ethnically Polish (link in Polish), and the largest ethnic minorities are Germans and Ukrainians.

But what if they did want to come to the country and apply for asylum? Or that the European Union would impose a larger quota than the 4,500 it has ordered so far? Why should Poland take in refugees? Setting aside reasons such as “simple humanity,” or “European solidarity,” (but really, why shouldn’t Poland, a huge recipient of EU funds, share the burden of hosting refugees?) the country’s history provides some hints.

I could go back a couple of centuries, to the time when Poland was erased from the map of Europe and many Poles fled foreign rule and persecution, emigrating to the United States, for instance, but let’s just look at the mass displacements of Polish citizens in the last several decades.

Poland, which before World War II had a much more diverse ethnic composition, was virtually obliterated in the first weeks of fighting. Many Poles were forced out of their country by enemy attacks from neighbors on both sides. A group of 120,000 Poles, a third of them civilians, were taken in by a majority Muslim country: Iran, a fact seldom remembered today.

After the war, the country’s borders changed, resulting in the displacement, often forced, of millions of people, Poles, Germans, Ukrainians and others. In 1968, the country’s communist government forced out thousands of Jews who remained in the country after World War Two.


All throughout Communist rule, Poles ran from political oppression (and towards better economic opportunity) receiving asylum, immigration status and citizenship in many Western countries. Just 26 years ago, Poland became a democracy, following a peaceful transition won by Solidarity, a revolutionary mass labor movement. As Gebert says: “Today, 35 years after Solidarity was created and 26 after its victory over Communism, not much remains of that spirit in Poland.”

Thankfully, there are some Poles who disagree with the country’s politicians, and go against the current of haters. The vocal ones are few. Some of them are my friends, twenty-somethings born around the time of Poland’s democratic transition.

Emulating their German neighbors, they started a “Refugees Welcome” platform where they aim to match those refugees who do end up in Poland with willing hosts. They ask potential hosts: “You don’t accept hostile attitudes toward something that is different? You don’t agree with the way refugees are treated in Poland?”

Last month, four of them organized a massive drive collecting warm clothing and sleeping bags for refugees, quickly packed their bags and drove off to the Balkans, to help informal groups of volunteers manage the influx of people, to provide them with information, a warm cup of tea and a few kind words. On Facebook they shared stories of Syrians they met on the road, pictures of children, babies, emphasizing that “this what most Syrian refugees look like.”

I suddenly noticed that these posts, shared and liked by hundreds of people, overtook the hateful ones. But it will take far, far more to change attitudes of the entire country.
 
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Refugees and migrants who are arriving in Europe en masse are not exactly pounding at Poland’s door. They are not even knocking: In fact, there is little to suggest they even want to settle in Central Europe’s largest country.
They don't want to stay here because Germans give higher social benefits. If they were true refugees I guess they would just stay in the closest country beyond the warzone... The biggest problem for us (and for the migrants who don't want to live here!) is that Poland is not able to make an autonomous decision in that matter. It's all dictated by the EU.
 
The closest country? E.g. Turkey? While there is perhaps no warzone climate (although there are bombings etc!), it is hard to build up a normal life. Hard to get a job etc. Not saying it is easy in other countries, but they haven't experienced countries before they get there, or heard about it.

If they'd all stay in one country, then that's not really a fair distribution is it?
 
They don't want to stay here because Germans give higher social benefits. If they were true refugees I guess they would just stay in the closest country beyond the warzone... The biggest problem for us (and for the migrants who don't want to live here!) is that Poland is not able to make an autonomous decision in that matter. It's all dictated by the EU.

The closest countries beyond the warzone are not exactly in great shape. Middle East countries are obviously not viable options. Turkey is in an armed conflict with another terrorist group. Go further West and Greece is in an economic crisis. Go up north from Turkey and you have Ukraine who is in a civil war.

By the way there already are 3 million Syrian refugees in Turkey. So yeah, they actually are staying here despite it not being an ideal situation.
 
If they'd all stay in one country, then that's not really a fair distribution is it?
It's politics, not parenting. You can't just say it's not "fair". Well, if you are a socialist then I guess you will say that, though... ;) It's also worth noticing, that if the route to EU was closed there wouldn't be so many of them. The whole situation escalated, because migrants know EU will take them. And for the record, I said: closest BEYOND the warzone. I don't believe it's the middle of EU. Rich Middle-Eastern countries don't want them, because they know that majority of these people seek for social benefits.
 
What's wrong with having social benefits? I also have social benefits. Are you saying all these immigrants don't want to work? There's quite some of them being educated (especially from Syria, so I have heard), and they could do jobs in Europe.

edit:
What I find so wrong is that you especially imply that they seek social benefits ("luck seekers"), and that they do not flee from terrible conditions. As if you deny that they are refugees. Do you know what goes on?
 
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Nobody "just" hates. No one is "just" extreme or insane. If you willfully do not wish to read into these aspects, you willfully choose to be ignorant (or in your own words "racist") about it. Let's try to do something about that, shall we?
I think with the way things are now it the world, it's far too late to do anything about all of this. We can sit here and discuss all of this to death, but the REALITY is that ISIS and other similar terrorist groups already have WAY TOO MUCH hatred regardless of the reasons. I'm not paranoid and living my life in fear because of it though. The best thing to do is be extra alert and aware about your surroundings and what's going on in the world around you while at the same time going on with your life and just doing what you would normally do. We live in a fucked up world with a lot of evil and corruption as well as all these threats of terrorism. Sadly, that's the way things are right now. But living life in fear won't help things either. You just have to hope and pray that none of it has a direct effect on you and again, be alert and aware of what's going on around you.
 
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