European Politics

Forostar said:
What's wrong with having social benefits? I also have social benefits. Are you saying all these immigrants don't want to work? There's quite some of them being educated (especially from Syria, so I have heard), and they could do jobs in Europe.

edit:
What I find so wrong is that you especially imply that they seek social benefits ("luck seekers"), and that they do not flee from terrible conditions. As if you deny that they are refugees. Do you know what goes on?
Click to expand...
I'm not a fan of the welfare state idea, so that's from where my views on social benefits come.

Of course I don't know all those people (neither do you), but indeed, I think many of them don't want to work and are looking for easy money. (Not to mention their possible lack of respect for European culture and customs.) It all looks like it to me. All I hear is that EU wants to pay for their subsistence. As I said before, I think if they were real refugees fleeing from terrible conditions, they wouldn't be so persistent about getting to Germany specifically and, most importantly, there wouldn't be so many of them. And they wouldn't be like 90% young males.... That's my take on the subject. It will take an awful lot of time for them to assimilate enough to get a decent job and use their alleged education. Now look at the Muslim communities in France and UK. Did they fully assimilate? I don't think so. I hear about a lot of cultural problems and tension in these countries. Now you will say "We don't love them enough" and I just don't buy that...

That being said, I wish you were right about those people. I really wish.
 
Forostar said:
Refugees are not per se terrorists.
Click to expand...
I never said the refugees were terrorists. I said that terrorists could sneak into the USA along with the refugees. Google: ISIS posing as refugees. But that doesn't matter either since there are already terrorists in the country anyway and they're most likely going to attack us eventually.
 
Srogyy said:
I'm not a fan of the welfare state idea, so that's from where my views on social benefits come.
Click to expand...
You're not a fan of pension or getting money if you are (temporarily) out of a job?
Srogyy said:
I think many of them don't want to work and are looking for easy money.
Click to expand...
Why do you think this? Who told you?
Srogyy said:
(Not to mention their possible lack of respect for European culture and customs.)
Click to expand...
Which culture? Europe has a mixed culture. Poland also had one, once. When my family-in-law arrives, my fridge is overloaded with Polish food. The Poles have a very different attitude towards food. Annoying sometimes, but harmful? Not really.
Srogyy said:
I think if they were real refugees fleeing from terrible conditions, they wouldn't be so persistent about getting to Germany specifically and,
Click to expand...
It's not just the money. The refugees might feel that the environment is less hostile than in many other countries, although that could change of course.
Srogyy said:
most importantly, there wouldn't be so many of them.
Click to expand...
Why not?
Srogyy said:
And they wouldn't be like 90% young males....
Click to expand...
I might have missed this stat, but is there a source? Perhaps young men can travel easier than families. I have seen lots of footage with families and elderly as well.
Srogyy said:
That's my take on the subject.
Click to expand...
I think you are misinformed. Yes there are problems, but you are exagerating.
Srogyy said:
It will take an awful lot of time for them to assimilate enough to get a decent job and use their alleged education.
Click to expand...
That depends, also on how they are received. Not everybody can assimilate, but some can. And how far do they need to assimilate? For example, which Polish values (there are any left, aren't there?) do you find important? Solidarity?
Srogyy said:
Now look at the Muslim communities in France and UK. Did they fully assimilate? I don't think so. I hear about a lot of cultural problems and tension in these countries. Now you will say "We don't love them enough" and I just don't buy that...
Click to expand...
There is tension, but there's also a lot of hate. Do you know that in some countries they also do not like Polish people? They steal jobs and kill people on the road with their drunken heads. How does that sound?
Srogyy said:
That being said, I wish you were right about those people. I really wish.
Click to expand...
There are good ones and bad ones. More good than bad, I bet.
 
Man, I don't want to argue about each sentence I wrote... You got my view, I'm not going to repeat myself. What? You thought you'll provoke me with some remarks about Polish people? Tendentious arguments are stupid as fuck. You're going ballistic as always. I don't think anything I wrote earlier needs any further explanation. Some of your "Why?", "Why not?" questions get silly. I'll say "Migrants are bad", then you'll say "Migrants are good!" and we can do this all day long. I don't care much enough to discuss all this shit with you.
 
Three self-proclaimed supporters of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) stabbed a teacher at a Jewish school in Marseille, France on Wednesday, according to reports.

The trio, including one who was wearing an ISIS T-shirt, were riding two scooters when they approached the teacher in a street, Marseilles prosecutor Brice Robin told Reuters.

"The three people insulted, threatened and then stabbed their victim in the arm and leg. They were interrupted by the arrival of a car and fled," Robin added.

One individual showed a picture on his cellphone of a homegrown Islamic militant who had killed seven people in attacks in southern France in 2012, according to the reports.

Prosecutors said the teacher's injuries weren't life threatening.

The alleged attack comes amid heightened fears of terrorism in France and other countries after last Friday's deadly attacks in Paris, which ISIS has claimed responsibility for.
 
bearfan said:
Three self-proclaimed supporters of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) stabbed a teacher at a Jewish school in Marseille, France on Wednesday, according to reports.
Click to expand...
This is like the stuff we saw in Canada, or the attack on the soldier in the UK a couple years ago. Local people who have decided to support Daesh and are lashing out.
 
Travis The Dragon said:
I never said the refugees were terrorists. I said that terrorists could sneak into the USA along with the refugees. Google: ISIS posing as refugees. But that doesn't matter either since there are already terrorists in the country anyway and they're most likely going to attack us eventually.
Click to expand...
Well, Travis, it comes down to this question for me: what is more important, helping out thousands of people who live under constant threat of death and war, or worrying about a terrorist attack that may or may not happen? It's an easy question for me to answer - I say, help 'em out.

All of our nations already have terrorists, or would-be terrorists, living in them. Mine, yours, Forostar's, Sroggy's. Some of them are brown people that happen to be Muslim. Some of 'em are as white as they come and hate the government. The key thing to remember is that terrorists act the way they do for a reason. People hate for reasons. We gotta fix the reasons.
 
^ Probably the most sensible thing that has been said in this discussion.
 
Srogyy said:
Man, I don't want to argue about each sentence I wrote... You got my view, I'm not going to repeat myself. What? You thought you'll provoke me with some remarks about Polish people? Tendentious arguments are stupid as fuck. You're going ballistic as always. I don't think anything I wrote earlier needs any further explanation. Some of your "Why?", "Why not?" questions get silly. I'll say "Migrants are bad", then you'll say "Migrants are good!" and we can do this all day long. I don't care much enough to discuss all this shit with you.
Click to expand...
I showed you how a whole group can be painted black while only a percentage of that group are acting like this. You may not like it, but this is what you did yourself. You also might be touchy because you've come to a point that you don't know what to say anymore.

I've questioned your generalizing remarks. Your reasoning, until you say otherwise: "because I don't know and now I want to stop this discussion".
 
Last edited:
LooseCannon said:
Well, Travis, it comes down to this question for me: what is more important, helping out thousands of people who live under constant threat of death and war, or worrying about a terrorist attack that may or may not happen? It's an easy question for me to answer - I say, help 'em out.

All of our nations already have terrorists, or would-be terrorists, living in them. Mine, yours, Forostar's, Sroggy's. Some of them are brown people that happen to be Muslim. Some of 'em are as white as they come and hate the government. The key thing to remember is that terrorists act the way they do for a reason. People hate for reasons. We gotta fix the reasons.
Click to expand...
So, do you feel that letting these Syrian refugees into this country will help to fix those reasons? And in what ways?
 
We ought to treat these problems separately.
A. Give people shelter who need it. Short term action.
B. Look into the capillaries of society. Go to the root of the problem and see what has effect on radicalization. In French society, in mine, in yours, etc. Long term action.
 
It's easy for us to give ideas on how to fix things, but of course it all depends on what the government does here as far as taking action goes. I wonder what the chances are that they'll do the right things to help fix the problems. Maybe they have done some stuff already. One thing's for sure. This whole world is too much of a fucked up mess in its present state. I'm just going to keep hoping and praying for the best.
 
Forostar said:
You also might be touchy because you've come to a point that you don't know what to say anymore.

I've questioned your generalizing remarks. Your reasoning, until you say otherwise: "because I don't know and now I want to stop this discussion".
Click to expand...
Don't jump to conclusions. The only reason I want to stop it is because it's impossible to come to any agreement on that subject. Our points of view are too different. I presented my general take on this and have no particular intention of convincing anyone here to think the same.
 
Forostar said:
Agree or not, I am asking questions.

What is the basis for this view? What do you mean with "many"?
Click to expand...
That's what I hear and read (articles like this: http://wpolityce.pl/m/swiat/264896-...-zyc-z-zasilkow-stalismy-sie-ich-zakladnikami but I suppose you won't understand). It's no secret that many immigrants who live in western Europe often exploit the benefit system. The fact that the current wave of migrants wants to get to the most socialistic countries, at least rises doubts about their intentions. It makes people lazy when countries just give huge amounts of money. I say "many" because I think there are more illegal economic migrants than actual refugees who need help. That's my opinion.
 
Of course we should help those seeking shelter from war and death within their family and country but I think that for some of the immigrants there is definitely a kind of "seize of opportunity" going on too... They know that there's almost zero chance of any future in Syria to be had because of ISIS and Assad, and a much much better chance of a stable life in Europe where they'll get help from the governments and have a chance to build their life/get an education and so on....For example, many immigrants choose to pass through Denmark because Sweden is more lenient when it comes to the intake and offer more benefits to the immigrants. Some of the immigrants hears from relatives or others who made it how nice it is there and then they make the effort to get there themselves...

I can't say I blame them. us Europeans migrated to America once too so ;)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top