Dream Theater

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P. S. - I also think some of the songs on DT12 would benefit from being given more space to breathe - I think Surrender to Reason would be much better if it was a wee bit longer, as good as it already is now.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
So, this is my post that released a shitstorm of Mr. Knickerbocker's wrath over in the Nightwish survivor thread :D



And I'd like to ask - what is it that makes Awake of all things the sacred cow of Dream Theater albums, while most people completely overlook Falling into Infinity or When Dreams and Day Unite?
Like I said, I have come to like the album a lot, but some of my previous criticisms still stand (the ballads are really so-so and - for exanple - Hollow Years' so much better I can't even) and overall it still sounds to me like a very incoherent and inconsistent album. And Space-Dye Vest has no business being there at all, IMHO.
It's funny how everyone dislikes audio clips in latter part of DT's career, yet they don't mind it here, for example.
And The Mirror/Lie is their Acacia Avenue - a song I could hear another 100 000 times and I still wouldn't remember how it goes.
And the album's definitely overlong - the much longer FII or SC seem to me much shorter, subjectively. When the second half of the record comes around, I just feel like it's a very long ride.
As far as I'm concerned, I nowadays go crazy about Scarred, Caught in a Web and mostly all AMBI, cheesy as The Silent Man is. I have also developed a weak spot for Innocence Faded, since it's my wife's favourite early DT song.
But I don't get what makes this the masterpiece to end all masterpieces. Honestly, no trolling here. Anyone? :)
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Blasphemy. Sure FII has shorter songs like Awake does, but its very different and quite inferior. Awake is raw, heavy, ballsy, but also experimental in a way they aren't anymore. They've always been progressive, but on Awake they weren't so proggy. Awake doesn't have the overly long instrumental passages and is therefore more accessible, but not selling out (which is kinda what FII dies: sells out).
Awake is something Dream Theater will never do again. They cut things down but stayed true to who they are. No wankery, but still progressive and experimental music (Lifting Shadows, Space Dye Vest). Short songs that still had balls (Lie, Mirror etc etc)
Whereas FII was a very obvious attempt at commercial acceptance. The songs were shorter but also poppier, and really, they just lack the quality that's in everything else they do. There's some good stuff in it, but overall a weak attempt and making it mainstream.
Its very obvious why Awake is rated so highly and why FII is considered weak. Awake is IMO Dream Theaters best album. I'd like too see them go back to a sound and style similar to Awake, but I highly doubt it because they seem very set in their way these days. They have a formula and a sound that they just don't deviate from anymore.
 
NotePad said:
Whereas FII was a very obvious attempt at commercial acceptance. The songs were shorter but also poppier, and really, they just lack the quality that's in everything else they do. There's some good stuff in it, but overall a weak attempt and making it mainstream.
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Are you not aware that this was a mandate handed down from the record company??? They forced DT to write with Desmond Child, fer cryin' out loud.
 
Been listening to ADTOE lately and it's a really great album. Only flaws are the drum sound and the wankfest of Outcry. I didn't like the ballads much when I first heard the album years ago, but I do now. My 2nd favorite DT album after I&W, 3rd favorite is Octavarium.

On the other hand I don't really have a desire to come back to the self-titled album yet.
 
Dream Theater confuses me. They'll bring me to tears one minute (Beneath the Surface, Lifting Shadows, Anna Lee) and make me want to kick puppies the next (Honor Thy Father, Constant Motion). Whether you think they're wankers or not, you have to at least respect the wide array of emotions they can convey.

Also, FII is underrated. There's a few weak songs (one of which is cringe-worthy), but Peruvian Skies, Hollow Years, Lines in the Sand, and Trial of Tears are among the band's best material.

Night Prowler said:
wankfest of Outcry
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Tell me about it. Way to take some of the catchiest vocal performances on the album and ruin it with out-of-place noodling, DT.
 
Detective Beauregard said:
Dream Theater confuses me. They'll bring me to tears one minute (Beneath the Surface, Lifting Shadows, Anna Lee) and make me want to kick puppies the next (Honor Thy Father, Constant Motion). Whether you think they're wankers or not, you have to at least respect the wide array of emotions they can convey.
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I think it's more about the quality of the emotions. Dream Theater is capable of writing some of the most powerful emotional songs I've ever heard, but they're also capable of writing pseudo-emotional crap that tries way to hard and ends up feeling trite. Granted, I think they write more heavily for the first camp, but I can't discount the second (which can mostly be heard on the post-ToT ((or even Octavarium)) albums).


Detective Beauregard said:
Also, FII is underrated. There's a few weak songs (one of which is cringe-worthy), but Peruvian Skies, Hollow Years, Lines in the Sand, and Trial of Tears are among the band's best material.
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Agreed. It's Dream Theater's equivalent of Load.

Detective Beauregard said:
Way to take some of the catchiest vocal performances on the album and ruin it with out-of-place noodling, DT.
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Could be DT's slogan. :devil:
 
What's this all about?

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Artwork wise yes perhaps...I was just thinking...Empire vs. Rebels? Hm, not very original ;) but maybe we should wait and see what it's all about first.
 
Agree with Saap. Keyboards are integral to their sound, taking them away completely would be a mistake. Having them understated and acting more as atmosphere like on Awake would work. I thought the keys were great on DT12 with very few "wanky" passages.
 
Since I consider Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry their probably best songs in the last 8 years and maybe even beyond that, there's simply no way I can agree with any of you :p :D
 
I listened to the studio version of Octavarium last night, for the first time in a long while. I've always preferred the live version from Score, and gotten accustomed to that one. Hearing the studio version again - no orchestral additions etc - was quite nice.
 
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