Dream Theater

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Nick is probably the most technically proficient of the Spock's bunch, but even then I doubt he could handle some of DT's more technical moments. Especially the metal stuff, he doesn't seem to have much of a metal background. He's better when it comes to straight rock grooves and DT rarely has that.
 
I like both MP and MM, but I would be interested to hear Marco, Virgil or Thomas with DT too - their auditions were very cool (and the argument against the latter two - that they're "reinterpreting" too much was pure BS, In My Humble Opinion).

I too think Nick's not too much of a fit, it could however change the sound of DT in a very interesting way - and remember (as far as I know) Jordan wasn't too much of a metalhead before he joined the band, as well...

The "extreme" guy from the audition wasn't that great; I could, however, imagine some of the drummers from the more tech-death bands working as well... George Kollias? Gene Hoglan? Or that dude from Atheist. I don't think anybody would really appreciate that ( :D ), however I think it would be very interesting to hear, at least for an album or so...
 
Black Bart said:
A sign that they had wanted to go forward creatively would have been to (try and) get Nick D'Virgilio. :notworthy:
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The part about changing creatively is true. Nick would have brought something very different... although DT would then have been switching from one friend of Neal Morse to another.
 
I think Minneman said he wasnt that serious but they invited him so he did the thing. Guy is an amazing drummmer and if you are not at least listening to the Aristocrats you are missing out on some mindblowing music. These guys are not just wanking. He also kills it with Mike Keneally. If hou havent heard his guy check him out.
 
The Aristocrats are awesome. Guthrie Govan is one of my favorite guitarists.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
I too think Nick's not too much of a fit, it could however change the sound of DT in a very interesting way - and remember (as far as I know) Jordan wasn't too much of a metalhead before he joined the band, as well...
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There's a bit of a difference here though. Jordan still isn't a metal head and whenever they do get particularly heavy, the keyboards either take a back seat or they just sound out of place. It's clear he isn't a metal keyboardist. But he also doesn't have to be a constant presence, so it's okay to drop out when things get heavy. It doesn't work that way for drums, especially given how vital the drum sound is to making a metal song.
 
Mosh said:
There's a bit of a difference here though. Jordan still isn't a metal head and whenever they do get particularly heavy, the keyboards either take a back seat or they just sound out of place. It's clear he isn't a metal keyboardist. But he also doesn't have to be a constant presence, so it's okay to drop out when things get heavy.
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I think this actually works to their advantage. Metal keyboards are fucking dreadful ;) It helps DT seperate themselves from the horde of symphionic progressive metal bands out there trying to be them.
 
Quote from Mike Mangini:
Do you have a friend that just doesn't 'get' Prog Music when the music gets rhythmically crazy? Know anybody that says Prog is "not musical? or "doesn't groove mannn?" It is because they can't process it in order to even have an opinion that they "like it or not." It is like they're trying to get online with no browser software on their computer. Proof is in THE quote of the century that says one HAS to learn polyrhythms to wire up in order to process, which will be EASY for us in the seminars:

"... This would indicate that activation of BA47 is specific to polyrhythm, rather than to the origin of this tension (the stimulus or the task)."

It means humans HAVE TO WIRE UP WITH POLYRHYTHMS OR THE AREA DOESN'T WORK SO A PERSON CAN PROCESS WHAT THEY'RE HEARING. No wonder they say, "I just don't' like it." Derrrrrrrrrrrrr... What else would they say? What they don't like is the feeling of not knowing, not the music. It all makes sense melodically, so they can't say it isn't melodic. The "grooves" happen to be 11/16 for example, but that IS THE GROOVE. Just because it isn't neanderthal 4/4/ all the time means it is a different groove with NO swing, not NO groove. So If you have a friend that you'd like to enjoy Dream Theater in the craziest moments, then explain a rhythm or two, make them count it out. There are rhythms I put in the last two albums that I don't feel people are picking up on with a couple of the craziest ones of all coming up on our next release. Too many people want fast food music, which I do sometimes too, but to not be able to enjoy most of the World's most deep music is just sad and it is for no good reason except that most of us just don't know how we work. Spread the word! There's hope for all. It is NEVER too late to make connections!!
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Perfectly sums up why I don't like Mike Mangini in DT. He's so caught up in the technical side of everything and then when someone criticizes it for not being musical, he belittles them and says it's because they don't understand it. That's probably my least favorite argument when discussing music.

He's right, you can groove in 11/16, but I don't think Mangini does. When I listen to his more complicated beats, it feels like he's more concerned about playing a different time signature with each limb than doing something that truly compliments the music. Especially as a drummer, when the guitar and keyboards are going off the rails in technical noodling, I think it's the rhythm section's job to keep everything grounded. This is something Portnoy excelled at. Mangini just joins in. Suddenly the groove is lost. That's why it isn't there. Not because I "can't process what I'm hearing".

I admire the guy's mind, he definitely has a unique approach to music. It's not something I really dig in his playing though and I like it even less after learning a bit about his attitude.


Source: https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini?fref=ts
 
So, this is my post that released a shitstorm of Mr. Knickerbocker's wrath over in the Nightwish survivor thread :D

JudasMyGuide said:
This reminds me of the time I told my Dream Theater-loving friend that Awake is overblown, overlong, brooding piece of sh*t, pompous even for DT standards, full of boy-bandish choruses (Innocence Faded, Caught in a Web) and half-assed ballads (The Silent Man, Lifting Shadows Off a Dream) and that Moore creepiness in the end that really even sounds to me like watching a stalker masturbate. Poor guy seemed to have something like a heart attack. :D
I have since come to like the album quite a lot, but the friendship never quite recovered.
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And I'd like to ask - what is it that makes Awake of all things the sacred cow of Dream Theater albums, while most people completely overlook Falling into Infinity or When Dreams and Day Unite?
Like I said, I have come to like the album a lot, but some of my previous criticisms still stand (the ballads are really so-so and - for exanple - Hollow Years' so much better I can't even) and overall it still sounds to me like a very incoherent and inconsistent album. And Space-Dye Vest has no business being there at all, IMHO.
It's funny how everyone dislikes audio clips in latter part of DT's career, yet they don't mind it here, for example.
And The Mirror/Lie is their Acacia Avenue - a song I could hear another 100 000 times and I still wouldn't remember how it goes.
And the album's definitely overlong - the much longer FII or SC seem to me much shorter, subjectively. When the second half of the record comes around, I just feel like it's a very long ride.
As far as I'm concerned, I nowadays go crazy about Scarred, Caught in a Web and mostly all AMBI, cheesy as The Silent Man is. I have also developed a weak spot for Innocence Faded, since it's my wife's favourite early DT song.
But I don't get what makes this the masterpiece to end all masterpieces. Honestly, no trolling here. Anyone? :)
 
JudasMyGuide said:
So, this is my post that released a shitstorm of Mr. Knickerbocker's wrath over in the Nightwish survivor thread :D

And I'd like to ask - what is it that makes Awake of all things the sacred cow of Dream Theater albums, while most people completely overlook Falling into Infinity or When Dreams and Day Unite?
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Oh, no no no, my wrath shitstorm (new band name!) was all about your opinion of Nightwish's epics.

Awake is not my favorite Dream Theater record. I put Train of Thought, Images & Words, Scenes from a Memory, and the s/t album all above it. But there are some masterpieces on the album. I also like Falling into Infinity more than most. But WDADU is not very good, mostly because of the singer.
 
On another topic, I listened to DT's self-titled 2013 album yesterday for the first time. I had heard many negative comments about it so my expectations were low but it was actually pretty damn good. I'm not completely satisfied with the style they have been developing over recent years but most songs are still good and there are definitely shiver-inducing moments on the self-titled album. An example would be the second half of Illumination Theory.
 
Saapanael said:
On another topic, I listened to DT's self-titled 2013 album yesterday for the first time. I had heard many negative comments about it so my expectations were low but it was actually pretty damn good. I'm not completely satisfied with the style they have been developing over recent years but most songs are still good and there are definitely shiver-inducing moments on the self-titled album. An example would be the second half of Illumination Theory.
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I absolutely their self-titled album and don't understand the criticism it gets among DT fans. It's the most confident, catchiest, and resonant collection of songs they've released since ToT (but in an entirely different manner).
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
But WDADU is not very good, mostly because of the singer.
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I'd lay it on the production, since I think some studio magic could have made Dominici sound better. There's no question that he was the wrong singer for DT, but he got no help either.

Also should be noted that it's not about Dominici being "bad". At the time he had a fine voice, but the wrong range. The worst moments are when he goes for high notes.

WDAD Reunite, with JLB singing all the songs, has much better sound. It also shows that no singer could have saved that debut album from the poor songwriting, which is the ultimate root weakness.
 
I think WDADU is underrated. I mean, it's nothing to really write home about, but there are some gems (The Killing Hand) and as a whole it sounds rather consistent to me. And though he's not my favourite singer, I would still take Dominici over LaBrie around Once in a LIVEtime.

As for the DT12, I don't get both sides - I don't think it's that bad, but it definitely has some flaws. I mean from False Awakening to The Bigger Picture it's really amazing, along with most of Illumination (that orchestral part is one of the most beautiful moments in the entire DT discography, TBH), but the second half as a whole still leaves me a bit cold. I'm totally crazy about The Looking Glass, though - the beginning is definitely a shout out to Limelight, but the rest of the song reminds me of it too - just a perfect song, beautiful as heaven, that brings smile and good mood to me instantly, just like the aforementioned Limelight by Rush does.
I don't like the self-titled as much as ADTOE, but I believe that's mainly about my insane and passionate love for Lost Not Forgotten and Bridges in the Sky.

BTW - I just bought the DVD version of Score (I already have the audio version) - I maybe like the audio version of Budokan a bit more, but it's my wife's favourite live album, so I chose wisely. :D It's going to be a great week. :)
 
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