Blaze era help?
- Thread starter veddertown
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CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Forostar said:There are several repetitive/dragging songs in the current line-up era as well.
E.g., Face in the Sand, The Thin Line between Love and Hate or Out of the Silent Planet.
@Veddertown: I guess you're quite an eighties fan it comes to hard rock or metal.
Look, we're not living in the eighties anymore. Maiden has tried out new things since, and are not afraid to experiment. They have taken progressive paths with various songs. They evolved and are willing to try out new things. I like that better than when they rehash older stuff. Now if you could get the patience to listen to longer intro's (BOTWH) or brilliant instrumental pieces (The Unbeliever), then there's still hope.
Come on, these riffs and solos are among the best Maiden ever did!
If he thinks some stuff on TXF is repetitive (which everyone has jumped on, but didn't seem to be his central criticism...) --then he thinks (after early listening) that it's repetitive. There ain't much point in pointing out stuff you find repetitive/dragging too; new or old. After all, he might agree; but the stuff on TXF is still going to be repetitive!
And, riffs & solos best ever? I don't agree; which is fine. But even if they were, this doesn't make a great song, or album. I'm just curious: do you think there is great music on the Blaze albums, but the songs overall aren't the best? Or is it genuinely that you think there is some great music on them and the songs are amongst the best stuff Maiden have written (--or up there with the best)? I think there's some good music on 'em --but, overall, I don't think individual songs are up there at all. And, as albums, I think they are fairly poor, by Maiden's standards.
That doesn't mean he has to like it.Forostar said:@Veddertown: I guess you're quite an eighties fan it comes to hard rock or metal.
Look, we're not living in the eighties anymore. Maiden has tried out new things since, and are not afraid to experiment. They have taken progressive paths with various songs. They evolved and are willing to try out new things. I like that better than when they rehash older stuff. Now if you could get the patience to listen to longer intro's (BOTWH) or brilliant instrumental pieces (The Unbeliever), then there's still hope.
Come on, these riffs and solos are among the best Maiden ever did!
veddertown
Invader
My opinion of TXF will change with each listen for better or worse. For an album so dark I still feel very positive about it and what I'll take from it with future listens. The criticisms of particular songs are much like for any Maiden album, few if any are flawless and I like it that way because you can have turbulent relationships with the songs or they can become your best friends when you least expect it. Childhood's End is a recent example, a song I've despised for 19 years has become suddenly very meaningful to me. That's where music is the best form of art to adopt. I'm far from being a fan of 80's metal although I followed a few bands during that period, Maiden were always head and shoulders above the competition and are still very influential. I'm open to experimentation with any band but the Blaze era is still weak in comparison to Bruce's two tenures, that's not meant to belittle the period either. I personally found TXF both depressing and uplifting at the same time but the main points I criticized were pieces of music or lyrical content that simply bored me on each listen. It's taken me nearly two decades to accept 70% of the content on NPFTD and FOTD so early days yet. VXI is an entirely different matter but it needs a couple more listens until I can review it or feel like I can have a relevant opinion on it. One thing that stuck out like a sore thumb though was The Angel And The Gambler, if there has been ten minutes wasted in the history of Maiden this could be it. Another day at work with the headphones in and that could change but I have to say I wasn't impressed. Keeping an open mind and listening to both again.
snake plissken
Ancient Mariner
^ excellent post. 
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Mosh said:
Merely putting my own opinion against others in this topic. I challenge people to not overlook the rich qualities of these songs.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
It's for myself to decide what I point out. This isn't his topic, this isn't your topic. I'll post here as I please.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
I am telling you: TXF really isn't that repetitive compared to later Maiden. Listen to Face in the Sand, The Thin Line or Out of the Silent Planet. It goes on and on.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
That's fine that you don't agree but I find these solos fantastic. Actually The Unbeliever has one of the best instrumental parts since Rime. I guess I’d even put it in a top 3 of post-Rime instrumental sections, together with Seventh Son of a Seventh Son.
The intro is really good, Blaze’s singing might start a bit awkward, but he delivers the goods very well in the part where Janick plays acoustic (right channel). I love the pre-chorus guitar riff which is a strong melody as well.
In the chorus we get this awesome melody (middle audio channel) and I really dig Blaze here as well. And then that stunning magical instrumental enters…
From the first dying echo of that quick guitar touch we go into some tribal groove (unique in the catalogue). The melodies and solos are very moving. Almost struggling, screams of survival. Note also the ethereal sound of Jan’s rhythm guitar, appearing some measures after Dave’s melody.
He sounds like a knight coming through the myst, in slow motion.
Then he starts soloing (tremendous amount of emotion) and Dave does his gentle accompaniment, followed by his superb lightning solo. Back to melody with the class rhythm guitar.
It’s really cool that both guitars play not only their own solos, but also have an individual approach of the rhythm guitars.
I'll also tell you guys what I find special about Blood on the World's Hands. Most of all, this song is one big evil motherfucking riff feast.
The bass intro is atmospheric and dynamic at the same time, and functions as a warning sign. Nicko's rhythm is pretty unique. This eastern flavour to some of the riffs and melodies are really grabbing me. The synth helps making it one of Maiden's most threatening songs.
Actually: I don't think Maiden's music ever fitted better to its lyrics (or the other way around).
The solos belong to the best Maiden has ever done and this is also Blaze's best performance.
He tears it all open, I can see the fire burning in his eyes while listening to his menacing delivery.
He does those high notes incredibly well. Just love it! This is for me the Blaze-era song that I would like to hear live again, but I am not sure how Bruce would deliver this.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
It does for me. I am not only digging sing along choruses. There's more out there to appreciate.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
For me, the music is the foundation of the song. On top come the vocals and lyrics. Mostly, when the music is good, the song is good for me as well. But when I don't like the singing, then this aspect influences the total picture of course.
Same for great singing. Infinite Dreams wouldn't be as fantastic without Bruce's brilliant vocals -and Steve melody lines
- on top of it.There is great music, and some of the songs belong with the best. It depends on what we mean with the best. Not sure if I would put a Blaze-era song in my top 10, but there surely would be one or more in my top 20.
About the albums: TXF belongs for me with the best albums, meaning that it would be in my top half of the list. VXI is my one but least favourite.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
I disagree on TXF and I find 10 out of 11 of its songs good->outstanding. On VXI there is a less amount of good songs, but some of them are still very good.
veddertown said:
Cool. Hope you don't mind my positive ramblings on some of the songs you dislike. I thought it maybe can help to appreciate a song a bit faster than 19 years
when someone else describes the aspects he likes.
veddertown
Invader
I'm really appreciating the individual views on the Blaze era and it's giving me plenty to think about. I've just listened to TXF again and surprisingly today it was hugely refreshing compared to the last listen. Of all the bits that bugged me the only thing that I didn't enjoy was the song I felt most strongly about and that is The Unbeliever. I can hear some amazing musicianship in the song and lyrically it's fine but the intro and opening verse just doesn't work for me. In a way it reminds me of Dream Of Mirrors with that big cumbersome, ugly intro before finding some amazing melodies. I can't see me taking a shine to this song at all really which is a shame as it has it's good moments but as an album TXF is pretty high on my list already. VXI is such a different album and I'm not that sure what to make of it? Futureal has a great vintage Maiden sound and a great instrumental break but lyrically it is pretty weak and it seems like pretty lazy songwriting to me. Blaze's vocals sound a little flat too. I get the feeling that SH found it hard to write songs for Blaze as there are moments on both albums where it feels like he could have upped things another gear if he had the freedom to do so. The Angel And The Gambler is a strange choice of song for me and I believe it instantly kills the flow and momentum of VXI to a point as a listener that you don't know what the following songs can do to redeem it. This song changed my opinion on what I classed as repetetive writing on TXF and that is it's only positive thing of note. Really unimpressed that the band didn't have a couple of short rockers to fill this space? Lightning Strikes Twice is a little better than Futureal but has an amateurishness about it and it's starting to feel like the band didn't book enough studio time for this album. That said LST is still a listenable song. The Clansman I already know well from RIR and I know quite a few people rate this highly here. I'm not a lover of the song to be honest but at the same time can still appreciate it's atmospherics and the musicianship is excellent. For me when Maiden write historic tales they always sound well researched and well written but this feels like a reaction to watching Braveheart. It works well live but on an album that is feeling a bit disjointed it washes over me a bit. The Educated Fool is one of the albums more enjoyable moments and Blaze sounds really good on it. I can't help thinking that this lineup with a bit more time and thought could have made a few really good albums but the redeeming tracks like TEF don't seem capable of saving this one. Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger doesn't do that badly either but it leaves me feeling a bit sad because it's just not quite strong enough to paper over the cracks that abound this album where it wouldn't have taken much to take a song like this that extra mile. Como Estais Amigo seems very appropriate and strangely it reminds me of the final song, Communion on Bruce's final album with Samson. This is actually a really nice song and again makes me wonder what this lineup could have achieved. Overall VXI is pretty disappointing in the sense that it has some really amateur moments not heard since the Dianno years and lyrically there's nothing here that stands out as classic Maiden. I won't consign it or completely condemn it but I'm scratching my head a little that the band and especially SH were honestly proud enough of this to release it to fans who have been spoiled by some of the greatest songwriting of the past few decades. This has still been very refreshing despite the criticisms because prior to listening to these albums I didn't expect anything from them that I'd consider to be classic Maiden when in reality I've gained a lot of good new songs and a really decent album in TXF. VXI is far from being a write off either and I'll continue to give it a chance.
Interesting review. The Clansman is, to me, he highlight of VXI, but Como Estais Amigos is very close behind it. Never been all the keen on the Educated Fool myself.
Out of interest, you say you already know The Clansman from Rock In Rio, (and presumably Signof The Cross too, amongst the other 3 Blaze songs Bruce has sung), what do you think of those songs vocal wise when compared between the two singers?
Out of interest, you say you already know The Clansman from Rock In Rio, (and presumably Signof The Cross too, amongst the other 3 Blaze songs Bruce has sung), what do you think of those songs vocal wise when compared between the two singers?
veddertown
Invader
I do quite like The Clansman but not to the degree some fans do. As far as comparing vocalists I don't think they're worlds apart in many ways but it's interesting how they perform one anothers songs with their respective different vocal ranges. Sign Of The Cross for me is better with Blaze as is Lord Of The Flies. I think prefer Bruce on Futureal and The Clansman though. I've heard some live clips of earlier Bruce songs on youtube with Blaze and he sounded like he struggled to hold his notes at times like he was trying too hard to please Bruce fans.seely said:
The amateur moments for me in LST and Futureal are mainly about vocal delivery. I just feel like the songs are of the same standard as early material like Innocent Exile, Prowler, Charlotte The Harlot, etc which to me are a bit like filler songs. They have more talent than that. With Maiden albums sometimes not having many tracks you don't want sub standard material. All the albums have something that doesn't make the grade if you ask me but that's only my opinion. The only song I really don't like on VXI is TAATG as I said before. I do like everything else to some degree.
snake plissken
Ancient Mariner
All this talk of these two albums made me dig them out again and I gave them a good listen. TXF has some great songs and Blaze's song writing is very strong, I just can't say the same about his vocals though. He has the "feel" on many of the songs but the range to truly put the songs over isn't there. VXI is poison. Futureal is decent but too many tracks are repetitive and Blaze is all over the place on it. Como Estais Amigos is fucking boring too. Dave and Jan do belt out some cracking solos but overall it's a shocking record by Maiden's standards.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Forostar said:
I don't accept the challenge as there are no "rich" qualities to overlook.
Correct --you can point out what you want; but see below.
It is really --he started it.
I didn't claim it was.
Indeed, as you've already shown.
And, you quote me out of context, as you well know. I didn't say you can't express your opinion or make points. I merely pointed out that I thought your "argument" (the point you made) was poorly conveyed. In rebuttal to veddertown stating some tracks are repetitive –you simply stated some other tracks are repetitive. What of it? This is like someone saying salads are bland, and you saying -- tofu is bland too! This choice piece of information is unlikely to change their opinion that salads are bland. That was all I was saying.
You are telling me!; & you’re probably right.
You’re later comments are typical of your unflagging upbeat/positive opinion of these two albums; particularly TXF. I certainly agree TXF is the stronger. But, I just can’t express the same exuberance towards the tracks as you do.
Me to --which is why it surprises me that I just can’t get passed Blaze’s singing. How do you do it?
As much as I try, I can't get into the X Factor like other people do. I like the songs, it's a good album, Unbeliever, Sign of the Cross, Man on the Edge, all great tracks. But I can't enjoy it when I listen to it as a whole. I don't know why, I just can't. And it's not because of Blaze. No Blaze fits the album fine.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Here here.
But you're right, it's not just Blaze. There's something else amiss...
But you're right, it's not just Blaze. There's something else amiss...
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Yeh, the production, I feel, isn't the sharpest. I presume they intended it that way, but I don't think it sounds too good.
edclear
Invader
veddertown said:What I'm looking for is someone to convince me that buying The X Factor & Virtual XI will not only complete my collection but will bring me a decent level of listening enjoyment. I lost interest for a while after being disappointment by NPFTD & FOTD and never picked up any Blaze material. Equally if anyone has a good reason to avoid these any opinion is respected. ThanksI've only heard Man On The Edge which was ok I guess.
I never noticed your thread and began a new one which went ...
Okay, so I've had the cd's laying around for years, so I thought a fresh approach, but no, that guy sucks. Why did Steve pick him? His voice is flat and devoid of any real expression. Musically the tracks are great (as they would be), so what's your take on boring Blaze? I wish they'd release the albums as instrumentals so that I could actually enjoy them. I've got this image of Bruce sneaking up behind him, wrapping his hands around Blaze's throat, the notes are so strangled.