Best Album Ever Survivor: Somewhere In Time wins

Vote for your least favourite album

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
I'll give you that one. I have no arguments against the fact that the band sounds predictable at this point. They rarely do any experiments. They still come up with fantastic compositions (I love their last album) but they don't feel different. Their last album felt like a mix of Images and Words and Falling into Infinity.

I think the time has come for the band to try out different stuff, maybe a much calmer progressive rock album, considering Mike Portnoy has left I'm much more positive in believing it but I still don't think they'll break free from the formula they've been following for so long.
 
I definitely get what you mean. They reached their creative peak with Six Degrees. After that they started going into the writing process with a certain theme or sound in mind, and the music has suffered because of that. It should be more spontaneous, like on the early albums.

As for wanking, it's in songs that are needlessly long, mostly from the 00's. My go to example is A Nightmare To Remember. Everything to the Beautiful Agony section is amazing. But after that it gets repetitive with a forced solo section that is one of the worst I've ever heard. It should've been at least 7 minutes shorter.
 
It is the same way as I feel about the last 4 - 5 Megadeth albums as I feel about the last few DT albums. Same sound, same production, same kind of songs. Same product in different cans basically...

A calmer progressive rock album would be nice to hear from them.
 
I disregard 2003-2009 era of the band apart from some songs. Too forced, too similar, and features a lot of the wanking you guys are talking about.

Train of Thought : In the Name of God and Stream of Consciousness are great, As I Am is very good, I don't care for the rest. Too long.
Octavarium : Give me the masterpiece that is the title track, take the rest. A forced "modern" album. Better listen to Muse than listen to this, tbh.
Systematic Chaos : Full on wankery, even the good songs feature a fair amount of wanking, too long.
Black Clouds & Silver Linings : The Count of Tuscany and The Best of Times are fine songs but they're too long. The rest feature some nice ideas but are filled with pointless stuff to make them longer.

But considering amazing works like Images and Words, Awake, Scenes from a Memory, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and A Dramatic Turn of Events "wankery", "too long" or "boring" just sounds off to me.
 
We have almost exactly the same favorites from that era. But I also like Honor Thy Father, Root Of All Evil and I Walk Besides You. But yea, no wankery on the other albums. A little bit on ADTOE but it isn't too bad.

Another thought that occurred to me. All the long songs on the recent albums kinda ruin the true epics. Take Scarred for example. You get all the shorter songs on Awake and then the big epic which is "only" 11 minutes. But it still hits hard. You wouldn't get the same effect is Scarred was on Black Clouds, for example.
 
DT are great musicians. But with songwriting comes at the first place. If they write a long piece, they pace it very well and the material never gets stale or boring. One of my main complaints with Dream Theater is I find their material just too dragging. And lots of it does not sound original. Besides Rush, I also hear Pink Floyd. Their only trademark are the minor vocals.

Rush songs are based on fairly simple basic riffs. Gradually, the band adds more complex moments when it feels natural. The simplicity and technicality are very well balanced.

Dream Theater sound like they are more about technique and less about melody. And when it sounds melodic, it sounds unoriginal, or that brilliant singer returns. :eek:

Rush learned how to still be progressive and technical without long 15-20 minute epics after 1981. They simplified and shortened their song structures and still play at the highest level of musicianship. Dream Theater keeps coming with their lengthy works, and when they make shorter songs, it sounds unoriginal, or that brilliant singer returns. :eek:

EDIT: Alright, I have been exaggerating a bit, but what I wanted to do was showing the differences between Rush and Dream Theater. The core of this post is the way I see it.
 
I actually prefer the shorter Rush songs to the longer ones. I never thought that they were great at writing epics. With DT it is the opposite. The long songs (at least in the 90's) are mostly my favorites. I have a hard time comparing the two for that reason. It'd be more appropriate to compare DT to Yes, or even Genesis.
 
I know other bands who made lengthy instrumental parts more exciting than DT (at least in my opinion). Helloween, Rush, Scar Symmetry, Iced Earth, Wishbone Ash, Camel, Pink Floyd, Iron Maiden, to name a few.
 
I only can agree with Iron Maiden from that list, although I love Rush, Wishbone Ash, Camel and Pink Floyd.
 
The Flash said:
I honestly don't get how DT is considered wankery. I just don't get it. To me they're no different than a much technically superior mix of Iron Maiden, Rush and Metallica. I consider the band one of the most powerful bands in terms of feel. Just because they look like machines while they're playing their music (not all the time, though) doesn't mean there's no feel on them.

I'll go ahead and say this, if someone considers DT wankery, they might as well consider Rush or any other progressive rock band wankery too. Only album where the band's songs do sound like wankery is Systematic Chaos, as I've stated before.
Click to expand...
Only speaking for myself, they're all great musicians, but that's all I get out of their songs. When I listen to Rush, I don't just hear brilliant musicians; I hear some genuine emotions. I believe what they're putting forth. It's hard to describe because it's entirely subjective. I can sit there and appreciate the song structure and the level of musicianship, but that's about it. There's a disconnect for me.

Forostar said:
I gave Chinese Democracy some serious attention. Now it's your turn! Freshen up your memory! :)
Click to expand...

Oh, fine. :p I'll listen to it tonight.
 
Mosh said:
Here's the thing about Images & Words. There is a ton of stuff going on and every member is firing on all cylinders. Probably the only DT album where that is the case too. They were more or less creating a genre with this album. No rules and no fanbase to please. This album has a ton of nuances and most of them are really subtle. It's really easy to get lost in these songs, especially since a lot of them follow a seemingly loose structure, when in reality, it's actually very meticulously crafted. The best example is Metropolis. The first 5 or so times that I heard it I just heard a bunch of random madness. But once I got to know the different parts better and even see the sheet music for it, I began to appreciate it more and realize why it was so acclaimed. Everything on the album is there for a reason, there's no needless "wanking" that DT has been guilty of quite a few times after. It's nothing short of genius.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely with this. As far as I'm concerned, you really haven't heard Images properly until you've heard it at least five times. It's just too much to take in in one or two listens. The only instantly accessible songs are "Pull Me Under", "Another Day" and "Wait for Sleep". The first two of which are now my least favorites on the album (I cannot separate "Wait for Sleep" and "Learning to Live" in my mind, I know that they are technically different tracks, but I think the former is incomplete without the latter). When I first heard it, "Metropolis" was just a "what the hell" to me. But now I would say it's one of my top ten favorite songs ever. Beautifully constructed, technically and emotionally brilliant, with just perfect vocals and lyrics (I am inevitably singing poorly along with JLB when we get to the last vocal part).

Sure, some of DT's more recent works have gone on a little long for their own good, as people have pointed out. "Endless Sacrifice", for example, wanders off for a while before actually getting back to the point. The instrumental section is technically good and I enjoy it, but it ultimately distracts from the point of the song. That is a valid criticism of some of their recent songs. But Images? Never! There is not a second of fat to trim on that album. Please, anyone, tell me a specific part of any song on there that you would rather have not exist.

Cornfed Hick said:
Ladies and gentlemen, Dream Theater!! Seriously, this is the most succinct yet accurate description I've seen yet of this skilled but soulless band.
Click to expand...

I've never understood the criticism of DT as being "soulless". I could rattle off a list of songs that I see as being emotional and "soulful" (and there are so many), but it wouldn't convince you. I just don't get how you miss the "soul in some of these songs. Alright, no list, but I'll name a single example. "Surrounded" on Images and Words. A poignant, beautiful song, all the way from "Morning comes too early" to "Surrounded in all the light". Oh, and I notice a distinct lack of "wankery" on that song. If anyone would like to disagree, please tell me what part of that 5:30 number you would take out (inb4 "second 'Light to dark/Dark to light'").


Edit (forgot one more post to reply to):

mckindog said:
With DT, it's the songs — really, they just aren't that memorable.
Click to expand...

I also don't understand this. Some of the later albums, maybe (Train of Thought tends to run together, though I would still say the songs are memorable to me), but certainly not the earlier works. Each song really represents a distinct mood and feeling. I defy anyone to listen through Awake and forget the distinct songs "6:00", "The Silent Man" and "Space-Dye Vest" (to name three).
 
425 said:
As far as I'm concerned, you really haven't heard Images properly until you've heard it at least five times. It's just too much to take in in one or two listens.

I also don't understand this. Some of the later albums, maybe (Train of Thought tends to run together, though I would still say the songs are memorable to me), but certainly not the earlier works. Each song really represents a distinct mood and feeling. I defy anyone to listen through Awake and forget the distinct songs "6:00", "The Silent Man" and "Space-Dye Vest" (to name three).
Click to expand...
I think you may have answered your question to my post with the statement above it.
It's not that DT songs are not distinct from each other, it's just that they don't have hooks, or at least obvious ones.
There's a difference between a song taking a while to sink in and having to work to appreciate it.
I admire their abilities and respect them as artists, but their melodies don't move me.
 
425 said:
I've never understood the criticism of DT as being "soulless". I could rattle off a list of songs that I see as being emotional and "soulful" (and there are so many), but it wouldn't convince you. I just don't get how you miss the "soul in some of these songs. Alright, no list, but I'll name a single example. "Surrounded" on Images and Words. A poignant, beautiful song, all the way from "Morning comes too early" to "Surrounded in all the light". Oh, and I notice a distinct lack of "wankery" on that song. If anyone would like to disagree, please tell me what part of that 5:30 number you would take out (inb4 "second 'Light to dark/Dark to light'").
Click to expand...

It's because soul is by definition so subjective that something that might sound absolutely gorgeous to one person will sound like overdramatic rubbish to another. For instance, Queensryche's (sorry, too lazy to use the right "y") "No Sanctuary." I can tell Geoff Tate is trying to be emotive, and I appreciate the effort, but I don't feel it, and a lot of times, he comes off as rather robotic to me (except on Operation: Mindcrime). On the other hand, I showed a friend "As Long As It's Not About Love" by Dio, a song that has possibly one of the most beautiful vocal melodies I've ever heard, and she replied, "Meh. The song's okay, but the vocals are incredibly bland." :nuts2:

I can see why someone would be moved by a DT tune, but for one reason or another, the same tune cannot move me. I think it can either be because one cannot connect to a melody (which seems to be mckindog's and Forostar's problem) or one cannot connect to the execution of the melody (which seems to be my problem).

Another problem I have with DT is that I irrationally dislike James LaBrie's voice. :p
 
All I have to say to "DT-dislikers" to give the band some other chances, especially the following albums :

Images and Words
Awake
Scenes from a Memory
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
A Dramatic Turn of Events

If I were to give up on the band after my first three-four listens I wouldn't have the chance to enjoy one of the best bands ever. Remember how everybody (rightfully) talked about The Final Frontier as an album to be listened over and over again to process ? DT albums need five times more listenings to process.

James' vocals can be annoying to some, they aren't to me, but I see where you're coming from. They're fucking awesome on Awake, though.
 
The Flash said:
All I have to say to "DT-dislikers" to give the band some other chances, especially the following albums :

Images and Words
Awake
Scenes from a Memory
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
A Dramatic Turn of Events

If I were to give up on the band after my first three-four listens I wouldn't have the chance to enjoy one of the best bands ever. Remember how everybody (rightfully) talked about The Final Frontier as an album to be listened over and over again to process ? DT albums need five times more listenings to process.

James' vocals can be annoying to some, they aren't to me, but I see where you're coming from. They're fucking awesome on Awake, though.
Click to expand...

I've heard three of those several times (since I agree 100% with you that you should never give up on a band/album/song after only one listen). Maybe I'll try again later, but I just remember being so impressed by how unimpressed I was. It's strange because they're the kind of band where it feels like you should like them, but there's just something in the way.

Mckindog, why do you dislike James's vocals? I honestly have no idea why they bother me so much (to a point where even a song I might like can be ruined). I mean, he's an extraordinary singer and he sounds exactly like every other metal singer of that caliber (and I love singers of that caliber).

Anyway, off to go remind myself what that Iced Earth album sounds like. :p

Edit: I just noticed all the King Crimson votes. :(
 
Kill Devil Hill said:
Edit: I just noticed all the King Crimson votes. :(
Click to expand...

I know right. One of the most influential albums of all time and at the same one of the greatest progressive rock albums of all time. I have a feeling that King Crimson are underrated on this forum. I'm curious about how far will Larks' Tongues in Aspic and Red go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top