American and European Metal

[!--QuoteBegin-MigDaimon+Mar 30 2004, 08:16 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(MigDaimon @ Mar 30 2004, 08:16 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] The North American bands (special the bands from today) are more fond on social questions. They say "look this world is crap"

The European bands are more fond on historical and fantasy themes. This doesn´t mean that the are outside the reallity. They they a history and make you think, they make YOU REALIZE that this world is crap.

So, north american bands are raw, the say it with all the letters, they say the naked truth with bleeding lyrics. I think this is very good.

European bands makes you think. You have to see the whole process of the songs and then you must make your won conclusions. And this is good too !

[/quote]
A brilliant observation despite the language barrier!!!
 
Isn't Two Minutes To Midnight all about currupted Government and such? Is that just my interpretation?

".... Starving millions to make a better kind of gun"
 
I think I should focus more on Iron Maiden (even though you can see through the Commentary to see this) and their uniqueness weighed against what has become "(north)American Metal" vs. "European Metal". Maiden is all over the place, yet most of their subject matter is historical and literature related. Of course they do write politically oriented songs, but in the case of 2 minutes to midnight and Age of Innocense they can be applied Globally easier than say...metallicas ...and justice for all. Which clearly criticises U.S Government (at least I think it does). Yet when Maiden writes about history they don't romanticize it like Hammerfall, when they delve into fantasy (like seventh son) it is not a happy fantasy or a happy fantasy, it is dark and almost a rude awakening. So the Initial purpose of this thread was, by showing the differences between North American and European metal to accentuate Maiden's uniqueness as it does not fit into either of these two categories in any way (except how migdaimon illustrated it). I thought this did not need explanation because this website does a great job of pointing specific issues out. We already know Maiden is a great band, but this is to show not only how great they are but also...special.
 
there is one thing though European metal can be divided into a few categories

Sweedish metal - very dark

Norwegian very paganistic as they are trying to ban alot of churches and want thier old faith - back from the viking gods that they wanna worship, and also heavily into Satanism....

back in the old days around 80's you had the switz - Celtic frost, Coroner end etc who very dark.

all the rest German and etc started off with all the satanic crap that came out of the 80's same with the americans at that time... but more into the holocaust the bombs dropping and wiping the earth (Exodus - Fabulous Disaster, Nuclear Assualt - the Plague and even Death Angel The Ultra Voilence)

then late 80's early 90's saw the americans push over to Political e.g Metallica, Anthrax ( also these guys were writing stuff about comics movies books ) where as there was a surge from european bands e.g Helloween 2 albums of the seven keepers mythical or religion ??

earliy 90's to mid 90's european bands where getting into Mythology and books Blind Guardian, Kreator at this stage were going along with the American angry polical. Whislt the Americans were still political but getting kinda vague in thier lyrics theres only so much to say about politics...

that leaves us to late 90's to now where as it seems a complete circle band are getting more into death and Satanism both Europe and Americans apart from a few exceptions.. the pentagrams are comming check out Anthrax we have come for you all.. Cannibal corpse, Opeth and the rest of the Norwegian clan...

While all this was going on Maiden have been still churning out the lyrics of War, Books liturature and just other social topics... other bands that have come and gone that follow trend but it seems that the music industry goes in cycles

And all awhile seems like the South American bands just Kinda a mixture of both and not really found thier own gene...

sorry guys im Australian what can i say our music Industry sucks the bands are ok but they are all Slayer and Metallica wanna be's and the Canadians well listen to groups like Nickleback enough to make you not listen at all....

Cheers
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Mar 26 2004, 09:30 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Mar 26 2004, 09:30 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] And Generalizing is not the best thing to do. Now, before someone says "but that's what you did by saying "European Metal". Well... if you pay attention you'll notice the thread did move on to start talking about U.K metal. The reason behind that was to start a dialogue and it worked. Also, I arrived at that generalization through A SAMPLE. This is done because interviewing the entire world, country, etc is impossible. So you get a great sample which represents most if not all parts of the society you are studying. So my European Collection comprises bands from: Spain, Italy, France, England, Sweden, Finland and Germany. The prime producers of metal. My american Bands are from the 80's 90's and 2000's. (Yes i do own papa roach). [/quote]
I have to make a minor correction to your observations, Opeth, Opeth Norwegian? They are Swedish, in fact they are the ONLY metal band to be funded by the government (which means they are the only swedish metal band considered art by the government) Also, sure European metal can be further fractioned but please keep refering to "European Metal" read the quote. The reason for that is to keep it simple. The further you fraction it the harder and fuzzier does the discussion gets. you can also talk about the differences in American Metal, but again, it becomes more difficult.
 
Perhaps you're trying to put all of European metal under one banner for simplicity's sake, and you do this basing yourself upon your collection. But from what I've perceived of European metal, basing myself upon my own collection, is that there truly are many great differences between the predominant sub-genres of different European countries. I'm quite in agreement with Tabor who points this out. Onhell, you say that you could do the same with North-American metal, but I actually think it's not quite so easy. You can find some slight differences in regional sounds in different parts of the U.S., but overall I would say that despite the country's huge land expanse, the trends that you find in one part of it, you will find in most others. As in most aspects of North American society, it is a unified country, if only because of its citizens attraction towards what is new and innovative (even when looking back at a classic metal sound, if you follow what I'm saying).
On the contrary, Europe remains a much more divided in most aspects of life. And I don't say this with any sort of good or bad connotation, it's simply the way I perceive it. You said it yourself Onhell, towards the beginning of the thread I believe. Europe has always been torn by struggles of all sorts, and still is - despite it's growing unification as the EU. There still remain huge differences --caused primarily by language barriers and the effects of history-- which distinguish different Sweden and Norway and Germany, for example, and which one does not observe between Florida and Texas and New York.
In any case, my point, which I fear might seem a bit lost amidst all this nonsense, is that I do find it hard to place the Death Metal sounds Celtic Frost alongside the cartoony Hollywood-gone-metal sound of Rhapsody or Dream-Theater-on-crack-after-being-bitten-by-a-rabbid-dog sound of Arch Enemy. And so on.
On the other hand, I do have to admit that most of the European bands I can come up with off the top of my mind do share the characteristics you listed for European metal, for the most part. I can think of several exceptions, but I do you see your point.
Damn, where was I going with all this?
You figure it out, cause I lost myself.
 
I do agree that European metal can be cracked down even further, but I'll get to that later. Something I want to ask the Europeans who see this thread is, is there such a thing as language barriers in Europe? The reason I ask is Because N.I.B perceives that there are and I perceive there are none, or it's not that big of an issue. From what I know most Europeans speak at LEAST three languages (some European friends told me 3 is what the town idiot speaks, as a joke of course), that 4 or 5 is the norm. If this is the case language barriers are non-existant or not that big of an issue. Also most European Metal bands that want to make it in the International Market sing in English.
Now back to the classification, again, i lumped it all together for simplicity and you are right that my collection as varied as it is is not varied enough to make a full and confident classification of European Sub-genres. However, from what I have been exposed to (beyond my personal cd's0 Sweden itself is a hotbed for ALL type of metal, from death to melodic to epic. In fact since the early 90's (but mostly the mid 90's) it has been the prime producer of quality metal acts. The prime reason for the differences between U.S and European Metal I believe lies in their education. I'll save a full explanation for later, this is a touchy subject (specially for the U.S) which I have to plan how to express without insulting anybody.
 
quite simple Onhell


U.S labels tend to pick quick sellers e.g blink 182, sum 41 and other such idiots.... these guys play on whats in... ever since early 90's there have not been any serious educated bands (musicianship) signed in the U.S. these bands want to make a quick dollar for the companies due to music downloading .. kazzaa and napster and etc. there have been a few limited bands with talent .. but notice how these have been signed way before or the older generation bands before the internet downloading blitz..

my piont is i have more U.S bands in my collection than European you can simply tell the difference when listening to them.. lyrics and music.

Also simply due to the fact that Metal is almost dead in U.S where as in Europe its still kicking butt.. also maybe with the re-surgence of the mid 80's bands reforming might have an impact on metal in the U.S remains to be seen as they are mostly putting Albums out this year.. e.g Exodus, Death Angel these are a few...

Ever since the Seatle scene came aboard it screwed metal and became grunge.. then another variation came out late 90's Nu-Metal these bands or some of em are talented YES i agree but some are just crap...

that is my opinion

seems like the U.S labels want quick fillers in the pockets...
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Apr 6 2004, 12:04 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Apr 6 2004, 12:04 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] The prime reason for the differences between U.S and European Metal I believe lies in their education. I'll save a full explanation for later, this is a touchy subject (specially for the U.S) which I have to plan how to express without insulting anybody. [/quote]
I'm interested in what you are going to "explain" about education in the states.
I am going to recommend you choose your words wisely.
 
I agree that there are very few regional differences among American bands, but there are a few important points to make about this phenomenon...

1. Most of the media is controlled at the national level, and thus the same across the country. MTV is obviously one such example. Another is rock radio: well over half the rock stations in the US are owned by Clear Channel, who allow very little difference between stations. I've listened to Clear Channel stations in many cities all over the country, and they all play exactly the same songs.

It wasn't always this way. In the 70's, before MTV or Clear Channel was around, every station was truly unique. As a result, everybody grew up with slightly different influences which translated into regional sounds. I grew up in the Midwest (in the great State Of Wisconsin), where the regional style was straight-ahead hard-driving three-chord rock. Good examples are Bob Seger and Cheap Trick; also Grand Funk, though the Funk were more musically diverse and sophisticated than most Midwestern bands.

New York had glam rock (Kiss, New York Dolls); Boston had the blues (Aerosmith, J. Geils); Washington and Philly were big in the soul/funk scene, and SoCal was the home of folk rock (Eagles, Jackson Browne). It wasn't completely cut and dried, but most major cities had a dominant style.

MTV changed everything. Yes, there was a time when their programming actually centered around music instead of mindless crap like 'Cribs'. Suddenly everyone was listening to the same songs, so all the musicians had the same influences. The fruit of this was borne in the early 90's, when a few innovative bands in Seattle were suddenly copied by everyone who could play a guitar. Tabor is right: music hasn't been the same since. Don't get me wrong - I love the original Seattle bands like Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. But their imitators (anyone remember Candlebox?) really annoy me. Just like Korn was something truly new when their first album came out, but now 1000 bands have copied their schtick.

<tangent>Before I forget: God rest the soul of Kurt Cobain, who killed himself 10 years ago today.</tangent>

2. The homogeneity of current US music is somewhat limited to nationally successful acts, or those local bands whose aim is national success. Local bands who don't care about selling millions of records still have the balls to sound different. Here in Denver, there are two types of bands who I didn't expect to find when I moved here in 1999: several great blues bands and some decent Dead-style jam bands. Denver is a western town where country music is the most popular genre, so I was pleased to find some variety here. I'm sure the situation is similar in other cities (not just the US, but worldwide).

I don't think education actually plays any role in this issue, but I'll keep an open mind and wait to see what Onhell has on his mind...
 
Sorry SMX one thing i dont agree is Kurt Cobain even though they changed the metal Industry i never got caught in the hype of Nirvana.... ill cop flack and ill take it graefully

Kurt Cobain was nothing more than a three chord wonder who couldnt handle the scene drug crazed idiot that killed himself.. and God will never rest his soul as he burns in hell for taking his own life.... (i have no respect for people who kill themselves)

Also dont know if you guys followed the Texas scene but in the early to mid 80's a group by the name of Kings X started they were voted best band for almost 3 years running 87,89, 90 in alot of magazines.. these guys were the originals and will always be like maiden in metal these i guess call them progressive rock changed and introduced the dropped D tunnings and all, that the whole seatle scene and Nu-metal scene copied these guys... check em out apart from Maiden these guys are truly legends not just in my eyes but the musicians eyes as well all over the world.... check out pearl jam and Sound Garden. Korn and all the talented bunch that did come out of that era thier all heavily influended by these guys and they even give credit to them... Nirvana were one but simply didnt state it while they got the recognition Kings X were already starting a gene....

Sorry to get off track.....
 
I agree completely on King's X. I have most of their CDs, and I think they're amazing. A friend turned me on to them when "Faith Hope Love" came out, and I've been a fan since then.

About Cobain: his stuff is definitely an acquired taste, and I expect most of the members of this board don't care for it very much. But I do feel sympathy for the guy, because we hit rock bottom with our respective drug addictions at the same time. I got out alive, he didn't, and that's pure luck on my part. By all rights, I should have died about 2 months before him.
 
Hello there. Very interesting thread ! And sometimes so funny !

Onhell, really, as a European, I've only one answer for you : LOL !!!

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Something I want to ask the Europeans who see this thread is, is there such a thing as language barriers in Europe? The reason I ask is Because N.I.B perceives that there are and I perceive there are none, or it's not that big of an issue. From what I know most Europeans speak at LEAST three languages (some European friends told me 3 is what the town idiot speaks, as a joke of course), that 4 or 5 is the norm. If this is the case language barriers are non-existant or not that big of an issue. Also most European Metal bands that want to make it in the International Market sing in English. [/quote]

Right, sorry to disappoint you, but... well... I know for sure that people don't speak so many different languages in Europe. No 4 or 5 is not the norm. I'll say 2 is a good number. I'll give you my example : I am french (!), I think I am fluent in English, that makes 2. Now I spent so many years learning german at school, but...
Yes I am able to ask for direction in the streets, but that's it. I can understand a little bit of Spanish, because I used to study Latin, I can read a Spanish paper, but I take the risk to misanderstand so many things...
There is a difference between knowing some words, being able to ask simple questions and understand the answers, and being able of having a really deep conversation with someone on any subject.
Moreover, there is so many cultural differences between the countries of Europe...

As for European Metal bands singing in English, well, this is the language of communication all over the world, now...

PS : As for the explanation about education, I am also very interested of what you will say. Choose YOUR words, we all know you want to discuss a point quietly without insulting anyone.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Mar 26 2004, 02:24 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Mar 26 2004, 02:24 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] Slayer and Megadeth are two good examples of this trend.
[/quote]
ARGH!!! dont use Megadeths good name with that... that... that... SHIT!

Megadeth: [!--emo&:bow:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/bowdown.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'bowdown.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [!--emo&:rock:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/headbang.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'headbang.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [!--emo&:chug:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/beerchug.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'beerchug.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Slayer: [!--emo&:cussing:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cussing[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'cussing[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--] [!--emo&:guns:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/guns[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'guns[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--] [!--emo&:eww:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/ed_barf[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'ed_barf[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--] [!--emo&:puke:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/pukeface.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'pukeface.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [!--emo&:angry:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/mad.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'mad.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

on topic:
Yeah, i have never realy thought about that... now i have started thinkin about stuff like that when i listen to an band.... Thank you...
 
cool SMX ive been a fan since the First album out of the Silent PLanet .. where does my nick come from ...hahaha

they are amazing i have everything they have released and worked out about 70% of all thier songs on guitar.....
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Eddie-the-Killer+Apr 6 2004, 08:49 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Eddie-the-Killer @ Apr 6 2004, 08:49 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] Slayer: [!--emo&:cussing:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cussing[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'cussing[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]  [!--emo&:guns:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/guns[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'guns[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]  [!--emo&:eww:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/ed_barf[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'ed_barf[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]  [!--emo&:puke:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/pukeface.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'pukeface.gif\' /][!--endemo--]  [!--emo&:angry:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/mad.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'mad.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [/quote]
[!--emo&:rock:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/headbang.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'headbang.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-GodBeWithYou+Apr 8 2004, 06:16 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(GodBeWithYou @ Apr 8 2004, 06:16 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] [!--emo&:rock:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/headbang.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'headbang.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [/quote]
i take it you dont like slayer to [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
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