.

Zare said:
Well I can't agree with that. They had different style. But just take Piece Of Mind as the 'next' album. How would Where Eagles Dare, Still Life, To Tame A Land, Flight Of Icarus sound with Clive? They wouldn't. The beats Nicko plays are in perfect synergy with songwriter's basslines, they would never be written or played like this if Clive was still in the band.

I can agree that Clive was better, more raw, more hardhitting when it comes to very narrow domain of music that we call 'classic heavy metal'. But Maiden is much more than that.
Click to expand...

This.
 
Zare said:
Well I can't agree with that. They had different style. But just take Piece Of Mind as the 'next' album. How would Where Eagles Dare, Still Life, To Tame A Land, Flight Of Icarus sound with Clive? They wouldn't. The beats Nicko plays are in perfect synergy with songwriter's basslines, they would never be written or played like this if Clive was still in the band.

I can agree that Clive was better, more raw, more hardhitting when it comes to very narrow domain of music that we call 'classic heavy metal'. But Maiden is much more than that.
Click to expand...

This a thousand times.
 
I'd probably say both Bruce + Steve. Maybe without Steve and a good bassist, you could still have Maiden, and we've seen first hand that Maiden without Bruce and Adrian is still Maiden, but without the two biggest draws that Maiden has to offer, and it struggles.
 
RTC said:
I'd probably say both Bruce + Steve. Maybe without Steve and a good bassist, you could still have Maiden, and we've seen first hand that Maiden without Bruce and Adrian is still Maiden, but without the two biggest draws that Maiden has to offer, and it struggles.
Click to expand...
Maybe without Steve ??????? :facepalm:
 
I think people really underestimate the rhythm section around here. Steve and Nicko have been the Maiden foundation for 30 years, there's more to that than technical skill. You could replace them with world class musicians of those instruments and it still wouldn't work.

This can be said for any band with a well established rhythm section, but Maiden especially.
 
I think you're severely overestimating the effect of a bassist. It's nowhere near as apparent as normal guitar, drums and vocals. Even if Steve is the leader of the band, a quality replacement and if no other changes were made, Maiden would likely retain their sound.
 
Yeah, Maiden has more basswork than most, and Steve is an amazing bassist, but if you listen to songs without bass, while there's a noticeable difference, it's nowhere near as radical as a song without drums, guitar or vocals. If a great bassist were to replace Steve, that slight difference would become so slight it would be barely noticeable unless you purposely paid attention to it.

That's not me advocating for the replacement of Steve for the record, it's more speculating if Maiden would remain Maiden without him.
 
RTC said:
That's not me advocating for the replacement of Steve for the record, it's more speculating if Maiden would remain Maiden without him.
Click to expand...
No, it's you kinda not understanding what an unique sounding bassist Steve Harris is. It's why covers of Maiden don't really sound like Maiden.
RTC said:
If a great bassist were to replace Steve, that slight difference would become so slight it would be barely noticeable unless you purposely paid attention to it.
Click to expand...
I don't think so.
 
Sure, any great bassist could reproduce the old songs on stage
But they are like the only (metal) band where the bass is actually more prominent than guitars
Since they are much more melody- than riff-oriented, the majority of rhythm and texture are provided by bass
During the verses, the guitars often just mimic what bass is doing (NOT vice versa! :D)
Sometimes the bass carries the melody while guitars just play the chords (To Tame A Land for instance)
Sometimes the song IS riff-based, but bass has its own life and interplay with the riff (like SIASL, 2MTM)
You can clearly hear the songs are written by the bass player. In fact, the songs credited to others (like Revelations, Powerslave, 2MTM, even Gangland) have GREAT bass lines.

One more aspect which I'm not sure how many people noticed, but his bass playing is actually quite "sloppy", he is all over the place rhythmically. Just listen to this:
And while that is generally a "bad" trait for bass, it fits Maiden like a glove, and helps increase the feel of playfulness (as opposed to heaviness of having the bass strictly on time), especially in interaction with the same kind of drummer (Nicko more than Clive), playfulness that is this band's real forte
I think this alone would deem him "irreplaceable", as far as bass playing alone is concerned

Now I admit that lately (reunion) he's probably been more concerned with other things on albums (production?), because his playing is a bit understated, that's why I was delighted when I first heard Book of Souls, I said immediately "YES! Steve is back!!" He sounds much more involved with bass lines and actual playing, and his classic interaction and complementing the guitars (just listen to that TBOS riff)

So even if he stayed and just wrote songs but had someone else play the bass, I think it would sound, I would venture to say, more different than replacing the guitar player or even the vocalist
 
Mosh said:
I think people really underestimate the rhythm section around here. Steve and Nicko have been the Maiden foundation for 30 years, there's more to that than technical skill. You could replace them with world class musicians of those instruments and it still wouldn't work.

This can be said for any band with a well established rhythm section, but Maiden especially.
Click to expand...
Yep, there's no other metal band in which the rhythm section is so important in sound and songwriting (and the parts that are played).

Zare said:
Well I can't agree with that. They had different style. But just take Piece Of Mind as the 'next' album. How would Where Eagles Dare, Still Life, To Tame A Land, Flight Of Icarus sound with Clive? They wouldn't. The beats Nicko plays are in perfect synergy with songwriter's basslines, they would never be written or played like this if Clive was still in the band.

I can agree that Clive was better, more raw, more hardhitting when it comes to very narrow domain of music that we call 'classic heavy metal'. But Maiden is much more than that.
Click to expand...
I agree that Nicko brought something else, but let's not forget Clive also did. So I disagree with the "narrow domain of music we call 'classic heavy metal'"-statement. Why? Just play Genghis Khan, Phantom of the Opera or Transylvania and we'll talk again.

If people (still) think Clive is part of the that narrow domain (it sounds disrespectful for the genre and Clive himself, depending on if you count him part of that domain or not), then they don't realize what he brought. Less so on Beast, but on the first two records the drumming contributed immensely to the songs.
 
Last edited:
I respectfully disagree. I see where you guys are coming from, and an argument with regards to song-writing would be one more likely to sway me, but if it were ever to happen, I would be open to a Maiden without Steve. Not that I want it to happen, but I wouldn't denounce it on arrival.
 
RTC said:
I think you're severely overestimating the effect of a bassist. It's nowhere near as apparent as normal guitar, drums and vocals. Even if Steve is the leader of the band, a quality replacement and if no other changes were made, Maiden would likely retain their sound.
Click to expand...
No way. The bass and drums are the foundation of any band, that's just how music works. But not only that, this rhythm section has played together for 30 years, with Steve being in the band since the beginning. You might not notice him in the forefront all the time, but he is influencing the sound. There are so many factors, like the way Steve and Nicko push the tempo, or the way Steve accents his bass lines which dictates the beat Nicko plays. These are fine details but they are totally the make up of an Iron Maiden song and anybody who is reasonably familiar with the band's sound would definitely notice something different, even if they weren't able to pinpoint exactly what it is.

And that's completely ignoring that, as others pointed out, Steve is also more prominent than your average bass player. You might be fine with them replacing him, but the thought that it wouldn't be noticeable is naive.
 
Steve has a different stile of playing the bass than most of bass players. The use of two fingers, use of flatwound strings and the little "imperfections" in his playing make his sound very tough to replicate. When somebody asks me about the sound of Maiden, I immediatly think of Nicko's signature beat (accents on ride cymbal, and fast single bass drum) and Steve's two fingered gallop. Also Maiden's songs used to be built around the bass part. I said used to be, because nowadays when they have 3 guitarists Steve often takes the back seat and sits on one note. Nice example of building the songs about the bass part are Where Eagles Dare and Trooper, where everything is built around that bass line (even drums). Here is Trooper with only Nicko, Steve and H. You can clearly still tell that it's Maiden.


When Adrian plays the solo listen to bass and drums. That is the signature Maiden sound. You can take away a guitar or two or even three and you will still have the signature Maiden sound. Like in every band that is the core and then you build around.

And here is Clairvoyant with only Bass and Drums.
 
It's true that 'Arry is quite unique as far as bassists go. As long as the base, drums (because 'Arry has been playing with Nicko for so long I don't see them going with another drummer) and at least one of the guitarists (probably Davey, since he's the only one who was on every album) remain, I guess you could still call the band Maiden. Whether I would like to listen to such band is a completely different question altogether.

You could say these 3 + Janick are my "core" Maiden members and that might be the reason I don't like the 80's albums as much as other fans do. But I don't want to see anyone go, really. I don't think I will, too. I believe 'Arry has said somewhere that the moment Maiden are not up to their standard and their live playing starts to suffer, he's killing the band right there and then. And I don't think anyone will manage to leave before that. Considering Nicko is 64 and 'Arry's 60.

And - we can argue whether someone could or couldn't replace 'Arry (I think there are bassists who would be interesting to hear in his place, like Markus Grosskopf, unless he forgot how to play as he did on Walls of Jericho... I also wouldn't mind hearing Newsted or Myung in Maiden for that matter), but it just wouldn't happen. 'Arry IS Maiden. Maiden carrying on without him would be like Nightwish without Holopainen or Thin Lizzy without Lynott (oops...)... I mean, with these two it would be probably much easier to find someone to replace them, as far as playing is concerned... but it would be seriously wrong, now wouldn't it?

Yes continuing after Squire's death (whether he wished them to continue or not) is just weird. If they had Bruford at least, instead of White...
 
Mosh said:
I think people really underestimate the rhythm section around here. Steve and Nicko have been the Maiden foundation for 30 years, there's more to that than technical skill. You could replace them with world class musicians of those instruments and it still wouldn't work.

This can be said for any band with a well established rhythm section, but Maiden especially.
Click to expand...

I always back up statements like that with this;


Irreplaceable.
 
I love how Steve is often ahead of beat, like he's pulling the whole band and creating the sense of urgency, and Nicko stays totally cool :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top