News 18th Studio Album discussion

GhostofCain said:
It worked well live, but the song is the answer to the question: "How would have Virtual XI sounded with Bruce on vocals?" Well, the answer is "Not that great" (in the same way as Lost in a Lost World shows how The X Factor would have sounded with Bruce on vocals - still boring for the most part).
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Funnily enough Lost In A Lost World is one of my favourites on Senjutsu and I really love that song :D
 
GhostofCain said:
I'd say the high points on DOD are higher (Paschendale in particular), but BNW is more consistent.

EDIT: The stinkers on DOD (No More Lies in particular) stink more though.
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Yeah exactly. BNW is more consistent from start to finish, DOD is more polarised between peaks and stinkers.
Vaenyr said:
Man, y'all are crazy, No More Lies is a 10/10, especially live. The only thing I could see being criticized is the chorus melody being the same each time, which Bruce changed live, so that's a non-issue. One of the few songs where we get a solo by each guitarist one after another after another, without any interruptions. And the song is dripping with atmosphere. So many singable guitar lines.
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It definitely an issue as long as the studio version exists. It's not that because Bruce modified it on stage, the original gets cancelled. That's not how it works.

GhostofCain said:
It worked well live, but the song is the answer to the question: "How would have Virtual XI sounded with Bruce on vocals?" Well, the answer is "Not that great" (in the same way as Lost in a Lost World shows how The X Factor would have sounded with Bruce on vocals - still boring for the most part).
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Precisely. And For the Greater Good of God is a third one.
 
Murder of Rue Morgue said:
It definitely an issue as long as the studio version exists. It's not that because Bruce modified it on stage, the original gets cancelled. That's not how it works.
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That's obviously not what I was implying. Maiden are one of the few bands, where many of the songs are much better live. Hallowed or FOTD for example, I only ever listen to the studio versions if I'm listening to the entire album. If I wanna hear those songs, I go for one of the live versions, not the studio version, because the former are so much better than the latter (imo). Same thing with NML. The studio version has its issues, but the live version is the definitive one for me.
 
Vaenyr said:
That's obviously not what I was implying. Maiden are one of the few bands, where many of the songs are much better live. Hallowed or FOTD for example, I only ever listen to the studio versions if I'm listening to the entire album. If I wanna hear those songs, I go for one of the live versions, not the studio version, because the former are so much better than the latter (imo). Same thing with NML. The studio version has its issues, but the live version is the definitive one for me.
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Well, sorry, but yes, that unquestionably was the implication of what you said. We're talking about the studio album here, and if one plays the studio record, the "No More Lies" that plays is the studio version, not the live version.

Otherwise, Where Eagles Dare becomes a stinker because that's how Bruce sounds on the Real Dead One version.
 
Murder of Rue Morgue said:
Well, sorry, but yes, that unquestionably was the implication of what you said. We're talking about the studio album here, and if one plays the studio record, the "No More Lies" that plays is the studio version, not the live version.
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Uh, no. It was not specifically about the studio version. It was about the song in general, so talking about both versions is fair game. Quit the semantics, there's no reason for that. You might be talking about the studio version, others talked about the live version. Chill out.

Murder of Rue Morgue said:
Otherwise, Where Eagles Dare becomes a stinker because that's how Bruce sounds on the Real Dead One version.
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Come on, that's just silly now. This is quite literally the opposite of the point that I was making and now you're just being deliberately obtuse. I said, and I quote:

Vaenyr said:
Maiden are one of the few bands, where many of the songs are much better live. Hallowed or FOTD for example, I only ever listen to the studio versions if I'm listening to the entire album. If I wanna hear those songs, I go for one of the live versions, not the studio version, because the former are so much better than the latter (imo).
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Nowhere did anyone ever claim that every shitty live version replaces the studio version. I was specific and I'll repeat it: Some live versions for some of the songs are so much better than the studio version, that IMO, they become the definitive version of the songs. For such cases, I do not return to the studio version as much, so the faults of the album recording aren't as relevant, since I have a phenomenal live recording I'd much rather listen to.

It's reeeally not a difficult concept. No need to "well akshually..." and misrepresenting clearly made points for the sake of, what, hostility?
 
To hop onto the DoD discussion, I did a replay of the reunion albums on a road trip home the other week and it's almost jarring how much of a drop in quality the songs are on Dance of Death in comparison to Brave New World. No More Lies, title track and Paschendale are my definite keeps, Rainmaker's the best of the short songs on there. The rest just sounds like filler.
 
I think Dance of Death is an exciting album that still sounds fresh today. It has a bit of everything from everyone. It was a very collaborative effort, full of ideas from a band that knew that the reunion had solidified, and the game was on for real. They had spent a lot of time together. Bruce said that the songwriting got more robust because ‘we’ve been working together for over three years and now that shows in our compositions’. The songs are very melodic, but also get heavy as tungsten. Again, is the album that led them into the next phase. I think it felt reassuring to the band.
 
Eduardo Cabeza said:
I think Dance of Death is an exciting album that still sounds fresh today. It has a bit of everything from everyone. It was a very collaborative effort, full of ideas from a band that knew that the reunion had solidified, and the game was on for real. They had spent a lot of time together. Bruce said that the songwriting got more robust because ‘we’ve been working together for over three years and now that shows in our compositions’. The songs are very melodic, but also get heavy as tungsten. Again, is the album that led them into the next phase. I think it felt reassuring to the band.
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I remember too bruce saying during AMOLAD that they tried some things different on the previous album and some of them didnt work. Yes maybe nearly the whole 2nd half of the album. As i said for me bnw is fresh and powerfull and dod is the hungover.
 
dickinson1978 said:
I remember too bruce saying during AMOLAD that they tried some things different on the previous album and some of them didnt work. Yes maybe nearly the whole 2nd half of the album. As i said for me bnw is fresh and powerfull and dod is the hungover.
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A Matter Of Life And Death is miles away from Dance Of Death. But doesn't change the fact that I do appreciate the latter for what it is.
 
dickinson1978 said:
I remember too bruce saying during AMOLAD that they tried some things different on the previous album and some of them didnt work. Yes maybe nearly the whole 2nd half of the album. As i said for me bnw is fresh and powerfull and dod is the hungover.
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My opinion couldn’t be more different.

Don’t get me wrong I love BNW and think it’s a tremendous album but right from the off I could tell some of these songs had been written before Bruce and Adrian rejoined.

DOD on the other hand sounded way more fresh and powerful to my ears. It truly sounded like the first proper reunion album where every band member was excited to get n the studio and all collaborate.
 
AncientMariner_Essex said:
My opinion couldn’t be more different.

Don’t get me wrong I love BNW and think it’s a tremendous album but right from the off I could tell some of these songs had been written before Bruce and Adrian rejoined.

DOD on the other hand sounded way more fresh and powerful to my ears. It truly sounded like the first proper reunion album where every band member was excited to get n the studio and all collaborate.
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The wicker man for example was written by adrian and bruce and was different. For me was a great comeback
 
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to be blunt, for me...
- BNW
- DOD
- AMOLAD

....is the golden era of the studio work in the reunion era. They all have such energy and inventiveness, and they each feel fresh in their own ways. The band members were also aged only in their early 40s till their late 40s, and were still relatively sprightly.

I love the other three reunion albums too, but they all got longer in length. The bloat / repetition issues started to tell a little more. Brilliant songs on TFF, BOS and SJ but it all starts to sound more stretched out.
 
Helmuth Von Moltke said:
to be blunt, for me...
- BNW
- DOD
- AMOLAD

....is the golden era of the studio work in the reunion era. They all have such energy and inventiveness, and they each feel fresh in their own ways. The band members were also aged only in their early 40s till their late 40s, and were still relatively sprightly.

I love the other three reunion albums too, but they all got longer in length. The bloat / repetition issues started to tell a little more. Brilliant songs on TFF, BOS and SJ but it all starts to sound more stretched out.
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Also their peak live
 
Helmuth Von Moltke said:
to be blunt, for me...
- BNW
- DOD
- AMOLAD

....is the golden era of the studio work in the reunion era. They all have such energy and inventiveness, and they each feel fresh in their own ways. The band members were also aged only in their early 40s till their late 40s, and were still relatively sprightly.

I love the other three reunion albums too, but they all got longer in length. The bloat / repetition issues started to tell a little more. Brilliant songs on TFF, BOS and SJ but it all starts to sound more stretched out.
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This all day long. I remember hearing AMOLAD for the first time and thinking they had mastered their songwriting post-1999.

I too like the other albums. I have a soft spot for TFF, as it came out during a great summer. However the bloat started to test my patience.

Going back to a previous post I made. I will maintain that Senjutsu is the weakest album post 1999 for several reasons.

  • Steve has too many solo writing credits. The albums where he does the heaviest lifting with the songwriting are arguably the band’s weakest.
  • The constant use of the guitars doubling the vocals. It sounds like Steve taught them the rough structure of the song but didn’t bother to come up with anything for the guitars to do.
  • It could have fit on one CD if the fat was trimmed.
I still enjoy the album, but it will always feel unfinished to me.
 
Ascendingthethrone said:
This all day long. I remember hearing AMOLAD for the first time and thinking they had mastered their songwriting post-1999.

I too like the other albums. I have a soft spot for TFF, as it came out during a great summer. However the bloat started to test my patience.

Going back to a previous post I made. I will maintain that Senjutsu is the weakest album post 1999 for several reasons.

  • Steve has too many solo writing credits. The albums where he does the heaviest lifting with the songwriting are arguably the band’s weakest.
  • The constant use of the guitars doubling the vocals. It sounds like Steve taught them the rough structure of the song but didn’t bother to come up with anything for the guitars to do.
  • It could have fit on one CD if the fat was trimmed.
I still enjoy the album, but it will always feel unfinished to me.
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Amolad is really a different album than the rest of the reunion albums
 
I thought TFF almost carried on the run of excellence. But the Mission Edition video and some band interviews gave me concern that Compass Point Studios wasn't in the best shape. And H's comment about wanting different arrangements for some songs.

They tried to recreate the 80s feel for the sessions by going back to Nassau after 25 years. Kevin's diary is still there and reminds us that "After a month in Nassau, the production was moved to Malibu, California, where the songs were mixed and additional vocals were recorded." I'm sure that's normal, but Bruce said elsewhere Compass Point Studio was knackered. Obviously they never went back to Compass Point again.

https://www.ironmaiden.com/the-final-frontier-recording-diary-by-kevin-shirley/

Iron Maiden Official Website - The Final Frontier - recording diary by Kevin Shirley

The Official Iron Maiden Website.,
web.archive.org

TFF almost has the end-to-end quality but doesn't quite match the previous three albums for me.
 
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