D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Yeah there must've been some collateral, imperialism is at peak in WW1, African societies had to be impacted.
World War I & II topic
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
As a non-historian, casual fan lay person, I have a question. Why is the First World War ignored so much now-a-days? It was known as, The Great War, for a while and now it is greatly overshadowed by WWII, yet it was just as important if not more so. What happened?
SixesAlltheway
Ancient Mariner
As another non-historian and casual fan I would say/guess the lack of *big* memorable leaders and characters. I mean, WWII had plenty of those but I struggle to mention any from WWI.
Edit: WW1 probably had just as memorable leaders but they might not have been "pushed" as much by the media in that case.
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That's a tough question, because I don't entirely agree with the premise. In many countries in Europe and the Middle East, it is well remembered today. If the Second World War overshadows the first one today, it's probably because it is more recent and many more people are alive who remember the war today. I think the last soldier who fought in WW1 died a few years ago.
Also, I think the First World War is less remembered in America in particular because the US involvement was much smaller than in the second; that may have to do with your perception. In my experience, Canadians talk a lot more about the First World War than the second for instance.
SixesAlltheway
Ancient Mariner
It might have been posted here, I might have missed it (I did try and check back a few pages) but Peter Jackson recently did They Shall Not Grow Old. A documentary/story about WWI. Hopefully it will help making more ppl aware of WWI.
Some interesting clips from the movie:
The end of the war:
The overall trailer:
Some interesting clips from the movie:
The end of the war:
The overall trailer:
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Great point. Mexico didn't participate in WWI and their involvement in II was minimal. Most of my history is through either a Mexican or American filter so that explains my ignorance about WWI, but it doesn't account as to why in many countries brush aside many events of the early 20th century as we mentioned above.
This is quite true, because it's a larger part of our national myth.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Is it because it solidified your identity as relatively young independant nation?
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
In my country it is not such a large affair. The one local famed military leader stopped Italian advance to Croatian mainland. There were no fights on the land. The navy was blocked throughout the war. For the rest, we were a small part of AH (percentage of population) therefore not much people in the army.
Apart from the defenses mounted by Field Marshall Borojevic, the next well known thing would be the sinking of SMS Szent Istvan. As she listed in the early morning hours near the Dugi Otok island the Croat majority crew saved itself by swimming to the island shores. The locals were also providing aid and the whole thing is even captured on tape. It is possibly the best case scenario in losing your battleship in warfare. Below 100 people died AFAIK and half were Hungarians. Only a handful of Croats died, some during the boiler explosions caused by torpedo hits.
The events that came just after WW1 are highly relevant for the nation. After who knows how many years Croatia and Dalmatia were left without crown protection. No one to rule no one to keep the mobs peaceful, it was a very turbulent couple of months. The local attempt to unite with Slovenes in some normal republic fashion was overruled, and the country unrecognized, because the Serb King was the winner and he had an army, and him, and his army, were extremely favoured by the local populace at the time. Everyone bar the local Italians, who were the very wealthy minority. His army was lauded as heroes and saviours.
Apart from the defenses mounted by Field Marshall Borojevic, the next well known thing would be the sinking of SMS Szent Istvan. As she listed in the early morning hours near the Dugi Otok island the Croat majority crew saved itself by swimming to the island shores. The locals were also providing aid and the whole thing is even captured on tape. It is possibly the best case scenario in losing your battleship in warfare. Below 100 people died AFAIK and half were Hungarians. Only a handful of Croats died, some during the boiler explosions caused by torpedo hits.
The events that came just after WW1 are highly relevant for the nation. After who knows how many years Croatia and Dalmatia were left without crown protection. No one to rule no one to keep the mobs peaceful, it was a very turbulent couple of months. The local attempt to unite with Slovenes in some normal republic fashion was overruled, and the country unrecognized, because the Serb King was the winner and he had an army, and him, and his army, were extremely favoured by the local populace at the time. Everyone bar the local Italians, who were the very wealthy minority. His army was lauded as heroes and saviours.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
For the general globe outlook I believe that WW1 didn't directly bring home to people's homes like WW2 did. In WW2, Axis initially occupied a shit ton of densely populated territory. It's the first war that really brought fighting to the streets, everywhere. The machinery could run 50kmh and individual soldier way better equipped than in WW1.
The first human conflict after the middle ages to utilize combined strike tactics of different detachments. Only Subotai did this en masse, Europeans didn't get it or didn't need it for quite some time. The marching army wall is slow and it will avoid small towns and villages if there really isn't a target there, the modern army sends a raid party there in a snap.
The first human conflict after the middle ages to utilize combined strike tactics of different detachments. Only Subotai did this en masse, Europeans didn't get it or didn't need it for quite some time. The marching army wall is slow and it will avoid small towns and villages if there really isn't a target there, the modern army sends a raid party there in a snap.
In a word - yes. I can explain sometime when I have more time to type!
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
For a few nations yes, not for most of the world.
In recent years interest for WWI has increased somewhat in the Netherlands. More books, more sources/newspapers digitized, more research etc. Many people would say WWI had no impact on the Netherlands but that is not entirely true. E.g.: one million fugitives went to the Netherlands. It had impact on society.
But all this was peanuts compared to what citizens in occupied nations endured in WWII. Makes an enormous amount of difference. Still, for France and Belgium WWI is still very important as well (perhaps even more important, not sure).
WWI was largely a military affair with large impact on these people and their families and the people/companies they worked for. And naturally for the people who lived in/near the battle areas it had impact.
WWII was devastating for way more citizens. It involved long occupation and genocide. It was the blackest era. Yes it was more recent, but it's impact was so much bigger that if it happened in the 19th century, it would still be the more important war.
You people know all this, but in this discussion it would not hurt to put matters in this perspective.
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Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
It seems to be a consensus that WWI was mainly a European affair rather than a global one. Hence history of it outside of the affected nations is minimal at best. The argument has also been made, I don't believe in this thread, but definitely on this forum, that the World Wars were really one war with an intermission. Any thoughts?For example @SixesAlltheway mentioned the lack of memorable leaders and other personalities during WWI, but it should be noted that the future leaders of the second World War were involved in WWI in some whay shape or form.
How many countries are they? Britain? OK, WW2 was more glorious. Japan? Much more to tell. Russia? Go Stalin, go Rodina! But what the others?
Mexico was almost part of WW1 thanks to the Zimmermann Telegram, but Ciudad was wise enough not to fall for it. As for WW2, the reference in Das Boot is about as much as you get.
BTW, I'm drunk, so if I miss something, blame it on the last beer.
Vimy and Passchendaele. My first paper as a history major was on this topic. Now I get paid for being a history researcher. I think I can talk about this.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Naebody's stopping you.
Vimy Ridge was like the baptism of fire for the Canadian nation. In the grand scheme of things, it didn't really matter because it was a small ridge in a large battlefield, but it was taken by a Canadian army under entirely Canadian control at a time when Canada wasn't even an independent nation.
Passchendaele was when this newly formed nation of Canada lost its innocence. My old history prof said it was just like any other action in the trench war, but it was just one mile won at the cost of 16,000 men who were sacrificed to the cannons - all Canadian. I was told the red in the Canadian flag symbolises the blood shed in WW1 for the Canadian nation.
Want me to go on?
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Yes!
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
I wish I knew what the curriculum was in other countries. A very good Belgian friend of mine didn't know squat about WWI. It was around the Dance of Death release and I asked her thoughts on Pachendale and her reply was, "The fuck is that?" When I told her what the song was about and my limited knowledge of the historical event she said, "I don't think so, it's just a dumb metal song." She didn't believe me until I googled it and showed her. She was very embarrassed and the only thing she said was, "Wow, it's sad I don't know my own history."