Why don't Maiden delve deeper into their back catalogue?

Of course there are reasons, in some cases maybe one or more people in the band just don't like certain songs. I'm sure no one is itching to bust out Quest For Fire lol
 
itwaszero said:
Of course there are reasons, in some cases maybe one or more people in the band just don't like certain songs. I'm sure no one is itching to bust out Quest For Fire lol
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That would be hilarious if QFF was brought out tongue in cheek, especially if by some insanely rare fantasy chance that any of the band members ever scoured through any of these fan forums and wanted to have a laugh. I can just hear Bruce's intro - "Scream for me (insert city) - here's a rare gem that the blokes on Maidenfans.com have been asking for - Alexan...QUEST FOR FIREEEEEE."
 
itwaszero said:
Adrian "admitting" that he doesn't know how to play like that any more is just probably a bit of self-depreciating humour and a way to brush aside the likely annoying questions about why X song isn't being played on Y tour.
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I was shitting you. Adrian hasn't said anything about playing AtG to my knowledge.
itwaszero said:
The band is comprised of professional musicians, and as you said this means that you play music for a living and is no indicator of skill. Professional musicians. It's their job. If the boss, Steve, says "Hey we are going to put ATG into the next set list", do you really think that they don't have the skill to do their job and re-learn a song that 15 year olds post covers of on YouTube? They are technically competent enough to play their own material, it's only a question of practice and rehearsal.
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I'm sure they could, but I don't really think that's how Steve manages the band. "Play this, it's your job!" Naw, don't think that's how the band works, from what you can gather from little things they've said here & there in interviews. They clearly discuss these things. They also rehearse stuff & then don't play them e.g. AtG, Infinite Dreams.
itwaszero said:
I'm curious, do you play any instruments? You can't forget how to play guitar a certain way, that's not how the skill works. It's already been composed, as I said above it's a matter of sitting down and practicing -- you know, being a professional about it.
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I play guitar. Guitarists as they get older seem to lose a certain amount of consistency. See criticism, in this forum, of Dave Murray or John Petrucci. You could aim this criticism at Satch or Buckethead or any other guitarist. As it happens, I don't believe Maiden play anything complicated or difficult enough for this to really be an issue. However, they certainly have had timing issues on tour, inc. this one. Nothing, mind, to do with the guitarists I don't think. Still, there's material I don't think they're confident of performing or doing justice to live. You can talk about practising & professionalism all you want; maybe Maiden don't & can't practise enough; maybe they aren't as professional as you think. I believe there's musical reasons why they're not performing some material.
itwaszero said:
There is nothing out of the ordinary or ultra advanced about Adrian's pre-solo or solo in ATG. That's not a criticism, it's a fact. It's a great passage of music but it's hardly anything beyond what he is presently capable of. If anything, Adrian is the guitarist who has pushed and advanced his craft over the years further than the others and thus has greater technical capabilities than when the album was recorded.
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Agreed. Although, if you look at Adrian playing in 1986, it's hard to say he's improved that much.
itwaszero said:
Yes, sometimes Bruce doesn't sing well. Sometimes Nicko fucks up timing. Sometimes Janick's improvised solos don't work. It's live music. Shit happens. Your point?
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My point is: maybe this is the reason they don't play the songs you're pissing & moaning about them not playing. Do you think they rehearse stuff, Nicko fucks up the timing, Bruce can't sing it --& Steve's like "hey, that one's good to go"? Or do you think that only happens live & these things weren't evident in rehearsal? I don't think so. Tracks that don't work in rehearsal, for the very reasons you just cited (aside from Janick's solos; Steve doesn't care about guitar solos going by the evidence), don't get played. Or get dropped really early.
itwaszero said:
I don't think that anyone here would say that Nicko has shown any signs of being unfit to play. Your point?
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They have. Read the forum. My point is obvious.
itwaszero said:
People whine about pacing, people whine about set lists, people whine about monkeys and bananas and vocal samples and an endless number of ridiculous things. In my opinion the slower tempo didn't detract from either song mentioned.
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I've no idea what songs your talking about. I do know, for example, WY was super slow in the opinion of some people when played on the ME tour. And there was plenty of griping on this forum. Was this a legitimate complaint? Dunno. I didn't think so, personally. Either way, Maiden/Steve don't live in a bubble; I'm sure they hear criticism &/or praise; maybe this is taken into account when deciding setlists. The band also appear to have differences of opinion about the pacing of certain tracks. Call these creative differences or whatever. It's clearly stopped them performing them live though e.g. Icarus.
itwaszero said:
You believe that the band isn't capable of playing every song in their entire back catalogue, and that's fine, but in my opinion it's more of a matter of they just don't want to play certain songs, as opposed to them being incapable of it.
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I didn't actually say that; I'm sure they could. They don't though, as you say. The question is why?
itwaszero said:
If they wanted to, they would practice, rehearse then perform any track in their history if called on to do so and there has never been any evidence to support that they aren't skilled enough to pull it off -- even if it's at a different tempo or bits here and there aren't as recorded.
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Can we conclude they don't play some tracks, not because they can't, but for other reason(s) then? :ok:

Like, maybe they don't enjoy playing them; maybe they think people don't enjoy listening to them; maybe they don't have the time to rehearse them properly; maybe they can't agree on approach; maybe one guy isn't happy with one bit of one song; maybe they don't like songs Dave Murray wrote; etc...
 
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There is a precedent for a band recording a live lp of only deep tracks, but not in metal. Songs In the Attic by Billy Joel (1981) is such an animal. It went 3x platinum. The performances are much stronger than the studio versions.

Too bad Maiden or AC/DC hasn't tried this yet, although Maiden came close with leg 1 of TFF tour playing only material from previous 10 years, which is lesser known to casual fans, but leg 1 was not released as a live cd)
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
I play guitar. Guitarists as they get older seem to lose a certain amount of consistency. See criticism, in this forum, of Dave Murray or John Petrucci. You could aim this criticism at Satch or Buckethead or any other guitarist. As it happens, I don't believe Maiden play anything complicated or difficult enough for this to really be an issue. However, they certainly have had timing issues on tour, inc. this one. Nothing, mind, to do with the guitarists I don't think. Still, there's material I don't think they're confident of performing or doing justice to live. You can talk about practising & professionalism all you want; maybe Maiden don't & can't practise enough; maybe they aren't as professional as you think. I believe there's musical reasons why they're not performing some material.
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Maiden has struggled rhythmically with many passages that are far simpler than several parts of ATG over the past few years. If full rehearsals of those songs can't fix it, I can't see a performance of ATG being anything more than a train wreck. I don't think it's any individual player's fault, I think people seriously underestimate how difficult it is to have 6 band members (especially with 3 guitarists) stay locked in. It takes a lot of individual practice and then a ton of rehearsing. I think it's actually an example of professionalism when the band decides that a song isn't ready at rehearsal and they just aren't going to do it. I'd rather that than what happened with Paschendale in 2010.

As far as the consistency argument goes, I think in rock music there's an attitude that once you've "made it" commercially, there isn't really any need to improve as a player. For most bands that don't really push a level of musicianship to begin with (Kiss, Foo Fighters, Guns n Roses, etc) that's not really a big deal, but for other bands (Iron Maiden, Dream Theater) it's something the fans will pick up on. It's impossible to truly master an instrument, but in rock/metal most reach a certain level and don't feel the need to go further. Neil Peart and Jordan Rudess are the only two exceptions to this rule that I can think of. Adrian Smith comes close, not so much technically but he had a bit of a renaissance in the late 90s when he was experimenting with alternate tunings and other ways of soloing.

I don't blame the Maiden guys either. Most songs aren't that technically demanding and these guys have families and other things they want to spend their time doing. I still honestly consider everything we've gotten since BNW as a bonus. If they don't think the extra practice is worth it for one or two rare songs, that's fair enough.
 
Mosh said:
I don't blame the Maiden guys either. Most songs aren't that technically demanding and these guys have families and other things they want to spend their time doing. I still honestly consider everything we've gotten since BNW as a bonus. If they don't think the extra practice is worth it for one or two rare songs, that's fair enough.
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Sometimes what I've found with dedicated fan boards like this is that the fans (myself included) often obsess far more about some of these details than the band actually does. I followed Devin Townsend feverishly throughout the 2000s and participated in similar threads on his board about setlists, guitar tones, song pacing etc...and when I finally got to meet him, he basically said something like "eh, some stuff works better live than others and that's what I focus on doing because there are so many other things about the business of the band that I have to devote energy to." Granted, he has a fraction of the audience that Maiden does, and is more DIY as a result, but I can see Steve having a similar mindset.
 
I definitely think it is something that has been overanalyzed. What Devin said is probably exactly how Maiden sees it. They know what works and what the audience responds to, there's probably no reason to mess with it.
 
soundwave said:
"eh, some stuff works better live than others and that's what I focus on doing because there are so many other things about the business of the band that I have to devote energy to."
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I find this a little vague. Did his answer have to do with not playing deep cuts, or with mistakes you talked about. Or both?

"eh, thanks for pointing out these mistakes but we don't care because we do not have time to focus on that".

or

"eh, thanks for pointing out that we don't play deep cuts but we prefer to play the easiest songs, because we do not have time to focus on the more difficult/rare ones".

"eh, thanks for pointing out these mistakes but we don't have to rehearse much until a rare song is played well enough. We don't have time to focus on that".

or (a trillion of other possibilities/combinations).

For the record, I do not think fans overanalyze. When there's a mistake or something "happens", some fans just know it. It isn't fantasy. It happened.
 
I kind of agree with the first post, they do have a stale set list, but they've become alot better the last 10-12 years. The History tours have been spent well, doing Another life, Phantom of the opera, Die with your boots on, Seventh son of a seventh son etc. And lets face it, they will never play deep cuts like Sea of madness, To tame a land, Strange world and so on. I would certainly love it if they did!
 
Mosh said:
Maiden has struggled rhythmically with many passages that are far simpler than several parts of ATG over the past few years. If full rehearsals of those songs can't fix it, I can't see a performance of ATG being anything more than a train wreck. I don't think it's any individual player's fault, I think people seriously underestimate how difficult it is to have 6 band members (especially with 3 guitarists) stay locked in. It takes a lot of individual practice and then a ton of rehearsing. I think it's actually an example of professionalism when the band decides that a song isn't ready at rehearsal and they just aren't going to do it. I'd rather that than what happened with Paschendale in 2010.
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Exactly. Some stuff hasn't worked. There are definitely musical reasons some material isn't performed. Your point about professionalism, stepping back when something isn't working, is spot on.
Mosh said:
As far as the consistency argument goes, I think in rock music there's an attitude that once you've "made it" commercially, there isn't really any need to improve as a player. For most bands that don't really push a level of musicianship to begin with (Kiss, Foo Fighters, Guns n Roses, etc) that's not really a big deal, but for other bands (Iron Maiden, Dream Theater) it's something the fans will pick up on. It's impossible to truly master an instrument, but in rock/metal most reach a certain level and don't feel the need to go further. Neil Peart and Jordan Rudess are the only two exceptions to this rule that I can think of. Adrian Smith comes close, not so much technically but he had a bit of a renaissance in the late 90s when he was experimenting with alternate tunings and other ways of soloing.
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Again, totally agree. Adrian has improved in his own way, but he was never any more than one of the guitarists in Iron Maiden. From a playing/technical perspective he wasn't, and isn't now, a stellar guitar player.
Mosh said:
I don't blame the Maiden guys either. Most songs aren't that technically demanding and these guys have families and other things they want to spend their time doing. I still honestly consider everything we've gotten since BNW as a bonus. If they don't think the extra practice is worth it for one or two rare songs, that's fair enough.
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Again, yip. They've given us plenty on the Hx tours.
Forostar said:
I find this a little vague. Did his answer have to do with not playing deep cuts, or with mistakes you talked about. Or both?

"eh, thanks for pointing out these mistakes but we don't care because we do not have time to focus on that".

or

"eh, thanks for pointing out that we don't play deep cuts but we prefer to play the easiest songs, because we do not have time to focus on the more difficult/rare ones".

"eh, thanks for pointing out these mistakes but we don't have to rehearse much until a rare song is played well enough. We don't have time to focus on that".

or (a trillion of other possibilities/combinations).

For the record, I do not think fans overanalyze. When there's a mistake or something "happens", some fans just know it. It isn't fantasy. It happened.
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I think this is the perfect example of... over-analysing! :p
 
I don't think they were willing to try songs that can't be played off the bat. I also think that was the issue with SiT songs live, too much effect handling and it took away the fun of playing songs. Adrian and Steve had multiple moments where they need to be concentrated on switching stuff.

But. Nicko was the most problematic one, then. He screwed up Paschendale in 2010. However his general shape is getting better and he did sound awesome, on-time and with great feel on this tour. It seems to me that everyone is taking performance a bit more seriously since Bruce's condition and everything around it. Even Dave experimented with guitars and I was shocked to see him try the first Powerslave solo without tremolo bar on a Les Paul. He reverted to Strat sometime during the tour. Tempos wouldn't be a problem if Nicko finally decided to utilize a double bass pedal. Maiden aren't grindcore, there are no 300 BPM hi-hat/snare beats.
 
soundwave said:
So I've heard the "Adrian can't play the solo anymore" quote from Nicko, but was never sure what specific part he was referring to...I'll have to listen in detail, but as I recall, there were no Steve Vai-esque moments of virtuosity during any of the solos in that tune (am I wrong)? The ATG solos don't sound any more technically challenging than anything else they've done (that's not a knock - I love Maiden solos more than any other band, but I also realize that they are not technical shredders like Malmsteen or Paul Gilbert).
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I have a recording of an interview from the radio around the time Somewhere in Time was released, the solo they are referring to is the section after the second chorus. In the interview they claim that Adrian had a hard time recording the solo because of the time signature.
 
I've seen Maiden on ever tour since the Real Live Tour in 93, bar Virtual XI, and at every single tour there's been at least 1 song played that I hadn't heard live before that point. That's pretty good going if you ask me.
 
There was a fanclub Q&A around reunion time (99-2000) on ironmaiden.com, question was why don't you play ATG live and Bruce quickly answered 'Adrian forgot the solo'.
I still think Bruce doesn't want to sing it.
 
I can't buy it that they couldn't roll out some old gems if they really put their mind to it. I'm no musical expert but they current stuff seems a lot more intricate than the 80s and 90s stuff. I really think they just a bit lazy and can't be bothered. There was no real excuse for only dusting the cobwebs off 7th son and prisoner for the maiden england tour which lasted 2 year. As a fan I've invested a lot in them over the years with albums, gigs overseas , merchandise etc so at least they could be a little more imaginative and not do everything by the numbers. At my first live gig in 93 I couldn't wait for NOTB, The Trooper, 2Mins. But 23 years later its is getting a little tedious! And it's not just about me wanting them to play AtG or ID. I'd love it if they played Holy Smoke or Be Quick or Be Dead! I'm sure they could re learn these inbetween songs on stage!
 
23 years later there is a whole new generation of fans itching to hear all of the classics. There's no way the band can please everyone but playing a decent selection of hits alongside a couple of deeper cuts and whatever the new material is is surely a good way of ensuring the band caters to both audiences to a degree whilst ensuring the band themselves still enjoy what they're doing.

Granted the ratio of classics:deep cuts is quite high but so is the ratio of people who go to the show to hear those classics to the people who want to hear anything but.
 
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