Flaming Blimp Crash
Ancient Mariner
Hang on, I'll get it started.
Virtual XI.
Virtual XI.
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Shall we keep the fires burning
Shall we keep the flames alight
Should we try to remember
What is wrong and what is right?
Aggelos
Ancient Mariner
I see your Virtual X1 and raise you one more... WRATHCHILD...
Black Abyss Babe
Slava Ukraini!
Azas
Eternal Knight
I came across Garry Kasparov’s opinion on Democrats versus Republicans. (Just an opinion, I know. Garry Kasparov is a russian chess grandmaster now living in exile because of his views on putin. He supports Ukraine and criticizes the Trump administration’s gradual steps toward becoming an authoritarian regime.) I find his opinion similar to mine—it’s the urge for the Democratic Party to wake up and get real.
Americans, you can treat his or my views as those of outsiders—how we see things from the side. Although, I think Kasparov lives in the U.S. And there’s no need to start shouting that crime rates are lower in Democratic states or that Trump is an indicted felon—we all know that. What matters is how average voters feel about these issues, because they’re the ones who vote in elections.
There must be serious internal debates within the Democratic Party to change its course—or at least the direction of public opinion. Just some food for thought.
Garry Kasparov
It would be impossible to have missed Donald Trump’s speech to military leaders this morning, threatening American cities with war. Or how ICE agents fired pepper balls at journalists outside Chicago. Or the DOJ’s politicized indictments against former FBI Director-turned-Trump critic James Comey last week. Amid this and other authoritarian abuses, you probably don’t want to read a critique of Trump’s opponents in the Democratic Party. I wasn’t terribly eager to write one.
But we need a reality check about the anti-Trump camp. The United States has two parties. As of today, these parties’ main representatives can best be described as traitors and losers respectively. While I think this country could benefit from a third viable option, these are the choices Americans have, so anyone who cares about stopping the traitors needs to understand why the losers lose.
Back in April, a conservative activist, Savannah Craven Antao, was filming a “man on the street”-style interview in New York. Another woman approached Antao and socked her in the face, leaving Antao bloodied.
Now, New York prosecutors have dropped their case against the attacker. The office of Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, a Democrat, apparently missed a filing deadline (give me a break). And yes, this is the same Alvin Bragg who led one of the criminal cases against Donald Trump.
First of all, this is just a gross abdication of responsibility on the part of a public servant. Second, it feeds into the sense of chaos that deflects attention from Trump’s own actions.
We know that Donald Trump is broadly unpopular. Yet voters trust his Republican Party where it counts the most. Consider the Reuters-Ipsos poll from earlier this month.
When Americans are asked which party has a better approach on crime, Republicans lead 40% to 20%. Immigration 40/22. Economy 34/24. Sure, Democrats lead (by a paltry two points) on the issue of “respect for democracy,” but “respect for democracy” isn’t something you can see, smell, taste, an touch the way you might viscerally feel unsafe in your neighborhood or how you would experience more or less financial security.
You can look at these numbers and rant and rave about how the median voter is uneducated or under-informed. That Trump, the convicted felon who pardoned his personal legions of insurrectionists, cannot seriously talk about law and order.
It won’t do any good.
And it’s not like the Democrats are lagging on questions of public safety and the economy because they’re too busy fighting Trump. Despite the nature of America’s constitutional crisis, top Democrats are actually quite conciliatory. Hakeem Jeffries says that he and his colleagues “hope and expect that Republicans will do the right thing.” Chuck Schumer preemptively surrendered what little leverage his party had by backing away from a government shutdown earlier this year.
Look at Americans’ perceptions of each party on the issues. These are the vibes (to borrow a word from the younger crowd) that will drive next year’s midterms. This is how authoritarians beat (small-d) democrats all over the world. The demagogues tap into real fears, and the democrats have their heads too far up their asses to respond effectively. Russia was a very violent place in the 1990s. Vladimir Putin seized on that and promised another way.
In the US, Democrats enter the conversation about quality of life issues at a disadvantage. For a few months in 2020, the party fully embraced the three most politically toxic words in the American political lexicon: defund the police. They have spent the subsequent half decade trying to run away from that slogan. Even far-left New York City mayoral hopeful Zohran Mamdani has tried to distance himself from that damaging fad. Because of all of this, even when crime is on the decline, voters associate Republicans with order and Democrats with disorder.
And when a Democratic official like Alvin Bragg—again, the very same district attorney who prosecuted Donald Trump—lets off a violent offender, scot-free, we have to recognize what kind of message this sends.
The right answer is not to turn around and correct voters about how crime, in the aggregate, is actually down, as some Democratic politicians have done in response to Trump’s National Guard invasions of US cities. People can’t feel statistics.
Get real. Show a little human emotion. Connect with the voters and tell them that you recognize the sense of fear and uncertainty that drives millions of Americans to support Trump or at least turn a blind eye to all of the nefarious things that he does. It doesn’t mean becoming Trump to beat Trump. Say that you see what the voters see and propose a reasonable alternative.
As Bill Maher said of Democrats in a recent monologue, “smug self-righteousness in the defense of some of the dumbest ideas to ever come down the pike is not a formula that’s really working for you.”
People might bristle at Trump’s boorish personality, but chaos—or the perception of chaos—extends his political longevity while killing Democrats’ credibility. A winning opposition needs to be both confident in confronting its rivals—especially when its chief rival is an aspiring authoritarian—and present a path forward that’s seen as workable. Internalizing these realities may be the key for the pro-democracy camp to turn things around."
*
Please, don’t get too irritated. (I wish the U.S. luck, because if you fall, we all will fall.) Try to see it as just another opinion—not a far-right one.
EDIT: Some of you like Bernie Sanders. He said this: “If you don’t have any borders, you don’t have a nation.” “Trump did a better job. I don’t like Trump, but we should have a secure border. It ain’t that hard to do. Biden didn’t do it.”
His opinion also ties into the broader idea of feeling secure, and so on.
Americans, you can treat his or my views as those of outsiders—how we see things from the side. Although, I think Kasparov lives in the U.S. And there’s no need to start shouting that crime rates are lower in Democratic states or that Trump is an indicted felon—we all know that. What matters is how average voters feel about these issues, because they’re the ones who vote in elections.
There must be serious internal debates within the Democratic Party to change its course—or at least the direction of public opinion. Just some food for thought.
"Democrats' Credibility Dies in the Chaos
Chaos—or the perception of chaos—kills Democrats' credibility while extending Trump's political longevity.Garry Kasparov
It would be impossible to have missed Donald Trump’s speech to military leaders this morning, threatening American cities with war. Or how ICE agents fired pepper balls at journalists outside Chicago. Or the DOJ’s politicized indictments against former FBI Director-turned-Trump critic James Comey last week. Amid this and other authoritarian abuses, you probably don’t want to read a critique of Trump’s opponents in the Democratic Party. I wasn’t terribly eager to write one.
But we need a reality check about the anti-Trump camp. The United States has two parties. As of today, these parties’ main representatives can best be described as traitors and losers respectively. While I think this country could benefit from a third viable option, these are the choices Americans have, so anyone who cares about stopping the traitors needs to understand why the losers lose.
Back in April, a conservative activist, Savannah Craven Antao, was filming a “man on the street”-style interview in New York. Another woman approached Antao and socked her in the face, leaving Antao bloodied.
Now, New York prosecutors have dropped their case against the attacker. The office of Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, a Democrat, apparently missed a filing deadline (give me a break). And yes, this is the same Alvin Bragg who led one of the criminal cases against Donald Trump.
First of all, this is just a gross abdication of responsibility on the part of a public servant. Second, it feeds into the sense of chaos that deflects attention from Trump’s own actions.
We know that Donald Trump is broadly unpopular. Yet voters trust his Republican Party where it counts the most. Consider the Reuters-Ipsos poll from earlier this month.
When Americans are asked which party has a better approach on crime, Republicans lead 40% to 20%. Immigration 40/22. Economy 34/24. Sure, Democrats lead (by a paltry two points) on the issue of “respect for democracy,” but “respect for democracy” isn’t something you can see, smell, taste, an touch the way you might viscerally feel unsafe in your neighborhood or how you would experience more or less financial security.
You can look at these numbers and rant and rave about how the median voter is uneducated or under-informed. That Trump, the convicted felon who pardoned his personal legions of insurrectionists, cannot seriously talk about law and order.
It won’t do any good.
And it’s not like the Democrats are lagging on questions of public safety and the economy because they’re too busy fighting Trump. Despite the nature of America’s constitutional crisis, top Democrats are actually quite conciliatory. Hakeem Jeffries says that he and his colleagues “hope and expect that Republicans will do the right thing.” Chuck Schumer preemptively surrendered what little leverage his party had by backing away from a government shutdown earlier this year.
Look at Americans’ perceptions of each party on the issues. These are the vibes (to borrow a word from the younger crowd) that will drive next year’s midterms. This is how authoritarians beat (small-d) democrats all over the world. The demagogues tap into real fears, and the democrats have their heads too far up their asses to respond effectively. Russia was a very violent place in the 1990s. Vladimir Putin seized on that and promised another way.
In the US, Democrats enter the conversation about quality of life issues at a disadvantage. For a few months in 2020, the party fully embraced the three most politically toxic words in the American political lexicon: defund the police. They have spent the subsequent half decade trying to run away from that slogan. Even far-left New York City mayoral hopeful Zohran Mamdani has tried to distance himself from that damaging fad. Because of all of this, even when crime is on the decline, voters associate Republicans with order and Democrats with disorder.
And when a Democratic official like Alvin Bragg—again, the very same district attorney who prosecuted Donald Trump—lets off a violent offender, scot-free, we have to recognize what kind of message this sends.
The right answer is not to turn around and correct voters about how crime, in the aggregate, is actually down, as some Democratic politicians have done in response to Trump’s National Guard invasions of US cities. People can’t feel statistics.
Get real. Show a little human emotion. Connect with the voters and tell them that you recognize the sense of fear and uncertainty that drives millions of Americans to support Trump or at least turn a blind eye to all of the nefarious things that he does. It doesn’t mean becoming Trump to beat Trump. Say that you see what the voters see and propose a reasonable alternative.
As Bill Maher said of Democrats in a recent monologue, “smug self-righteousness in the defense of some of the dumbest ideas to ever come down the pike is not a formula that’s really working for you.”
People might bristle at Trump’s boorish personality, but chaos—or the perception of chaos—extends his political longevity while killing Democrats’ credibility. A winning opposition needs to be both confident in confronting its rivals—especially when its chief rival is an aspiring authoritarian—and present a path forward that’s seen as workable. Internalizing these realities may be the key for the pro-democracy camp to turn things around."
*
Please, don’t get too irritated. (I wish the U.S. luck, because if you fall, we all will fall.) Try to see it as just another opinion—not a far-right one.
EDIT: Some of you like Bernie Sanders. He said this: “If you don’t have any borders, you don’t have a nation.” “Trump did a better job. I don’t like Trump, but we should have a secure border. It ain’t that hard to do. Biden didn’t do it.”
His opinion also ties into the broader idea of feeling secure, and so on.
Last edited:
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Funny thing: There's not a single person in this entire thread who defends the Democrats, who is satisfied with them or who supports them in their current disarray. In other words this is simply preaching to the choir. I suppose shadow boxing is more entertaining than trying to discuss with people who don't already agree with the basic premise.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
But but but what about the whataboutism? WON'T SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THE WHATABOUTISM?!
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Perhaps not every post needs to be viewed through the lens of one being in an argument. And yet you’re ready to jump right in with derision anyway.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
As has been the case for literal decades, Republicans sell lies, their voters swallow them line, hook and sinker, they get burned - predictably, as they've been warned numerous times - but nothing really changes. These same people keep voting red, they never learn.
So, while Kasparov's general point about the Dems not communicating well is correct (fully agreed!), the point that we should focus on the voters' feelings because those are easier to grasp than facts and statistics doesn't follow through. In a perfect world? Sure, that'd work. But in the real world, the one we are living in, the one with countless bad faith actors and huge chunks of the population who view politics as team sports this doesn't work. It's the "leopards ate my face" meme all over again.
No matter how you present things or how you approach some people, as soon as they see "Democrat" or the colour blue they're out. I've said this before in this thread, but there have been quite a few polls that show left-wing policies being overwhelmingly popular across the political spectrum. Even conservatives agreed with quite a few policies, but as soon as they found out that those were proposed by progressive figues they immediately flipped and changed their mind. There's simply no honesty left in today's politics.
That's why I'm really happy that Mamdani is having great success with his campaign, his focus on the economy and the fact that he's actively listening to the problems and issues of his city. Unfortunately the establishment Dems seem to be allergic to learning the right lessons and would rather tank him and keep losing. But we'll see what the future brings.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Polls show voters now trust Democrats more to handle the economy
The issue that sank Democrats in 2024 now threatens to do the same to Republicans in 2025 and the 2026 midterms
www.gelliottmorris.com
A new poll shows voters trust the Dems mora than the GOP now regarding the economy.
So, with all due respect to Kasparov, but maybe we shouldn't put too much emphasis on a chess GM's take. Turns out celebs aren't necessarily the greatest source of wisdom.
Azas
Eternal Knight
It’s perfectly possible that Trump and his administration are digging their own grave with their economic decisions (tariffs) and internal political moves (layoffs, etc.).
And I want to note that Kasparov isn’t a celebrity in the way some might think. He was an active politician—he tried to enter elections with a party and even wanted to run for russian president but faced strong resistance. He also took part in protests against putin’s regime. So, he was a politician—or at least tried to be—but putin’s regime prevented him from doing so. That’s why I’m inclined to believe he has some understanding of how society works and isn’t just pulling his thoughts out of thin air.
Of course, nobody is an all-knowing oracle. Now we’ll all wait for the midterm elections and see how things turn out.
And I want to note that Kasparov isn’t a celebrity in the way some might think. He was an active politician—he tried to enter elections with a party and even wanted to run for russian president but faced strong resistance. He also took part in protests against putin’s regime. So, he was a politician—or at least tried to be—but putin’s regime prevented him from doing so. That’s why I’m inclined to believe he has some understanding of how society works and isn’t just pulling his thoughts out of thin air.
Of course, nobody is an all-knowing oracle. Now we’ll all wait for the midterm elections and see how things turn out.