USA Politics

Jer said:
Nope. Not happy, but at least more tolerant of the concept overall.
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Israel more tolerant of Palestine after 2yrs of the recent genocide and the previous 70yrs? Sounds fanciful to me but here's hoping. Imagine one nation being tolerant of their neighbours right to exist. Go Israel.
Jer said:
And of Hamas rounding up and shooting non-loyalists. All the more reason to get third-party peacekeepers in there ASAP.
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Delplorable actions from Hamas. But this seems a false equivalence. I haven't read the terms of the ceasefire but in general, Israel shooting Palestinians seems like more of a breach than Hamas shooting Palestinians.

Agreed re peacekeepers. I'd suggest no British, American or Germans among them cos high level complicity in genocide, track records etc.

Jer said:
Now that the live hostages have all been returned, that becomes possible.
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Seems more possible aye but the previous 70yrs suggest otherwise.
 
Spaldy said:
Why do you keep conflating Hamas with Palestinians/Gazan civilians?

That was a rhetorical question. I know why.
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My point was that you funnel all your anger at Trump or “the administration” while completely ignoring realities on the ground. Hamas was once elected by Gaza’s civilians. Hamas started the latest hot phase of the conflict. Now they’re executing their own disobedient people.

Didn’t you all, not long ago, scream that I’m bloodthirsty for wanting the war to continue? But now that at least something good has happened, you—yes, you who know who you are—aren’t happy.
 
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Azas said:
My point was that you funnel all your anger at Trump or “the administration” while completely ignoring realities on the ground. Hamas was once elected by Gaza’s civilians. Hamas started the latest hot phase of the conflict. Now they’re executing their own disobedient people.

Didn’t you all, not long ago, scream that I’m bloodthirsty for wanting the war to continue? But now that at least something good has happened, you—yes, you who know who you are—aren’t happy.
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Hamas wete elected nearly 2 decades ago (the last election in Gaza) and the other option was Hezbollah. Gazans didn't have much of a great choice to begin with and it didn't help that Israel were secretly backing a Hamas win. But if you live your life with a gun to your head, you're probably going to vote for the guy with a gun.
 
Tens of thousands of innocent civilians including women and literal children were killed by Israel.

Little kids were shot in the genitals by Israeli snipers.

Thousands of people were intentionally starved.

International aid workers were targeted and killed.

Israel enacted a literal genocide in broad day light and the world powers supported them.

Conflating Hamas with all Palestinians is pure racism and bigotry. It's simple as that. Bibi himself literally funded Hamas previously and gave them money, because it furthered his goals.

The average age of Palestinians in Gaza is around 18 years old. That means most of them literally weren't even alive when Hamas was voted in. Anyone who still uses this idiotic argument is doing so in bad faith, it's as simple as that.
 
Spaldy said:
Hamas wete elected nearly 2 decades ago (the last election in Gaza) and the other option was Hezbollah. Gazans didn't have much of a great choice to begin with and it didn't help that Israel were secretly backing a Hamas win. But if you live your life with a gun to your head, you're probably going to vote for the guy with a gun.
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I can agree with what you said above.

But the reality is, many people there still support hamas—and that will only lead to more terror. In the near future, Gaza will have to be governed for several years by some kind of third-party authority.

I also agree that Israel needs to show goodwill toward Gazans, but in return, the Palestinians must abandon their “martyr” politics of terror.

All in all, for now, a truce has been reached—and that’s good. What the future brings, we’ll see.
 
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But we're still supposed to praise the fascist-in-chief, right?
 
Jer said:
The relatives of the hostages that have been returned would likely say yes. And it’s entirely possible to praise one thing a person does while condemning the rest, but this appears to be an indigestible concept for you.
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Cute ad-hominem but you're once again letting your emotions cloud your judgement into making objectively wrong statements. You can literally look up posts of mine where I've given credit where credit was due to people I dislike.

But Trump, a fascist pedophile notorious for shady deals and a well documented history of thousands of lies, getting credit? Nah, I have principles.

They say the Nazis made the trains run on time. Are you gonna give props to Hitler as well? At least I'm consistent with my principles and ideals. Have fun with your virtue signaling though.
 
I don't think Jer is saying you should give him moral credit. But yes, the Trump administration did something good here. It doesn't equalize things, but fact remains that the Trump administration put serious energy into this, regardless of its motivations to do so, and may have succeeded in one way or another.

Seriously. Don't get into a shouting match with each other this time. All three of us still hate Trump.
 
Yax said:
Seriously. Don't get into a shouting match with each other this time. All three of us still hate Trump.
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I'm not getting in any shouting match, no worries. I do want to point out how we have posters continuously conflating Hamas with Palestinians, downplaying the suffering of Gazans, even dehumanizing them, yet I'm being tone policed for calling out Trump, who as I stated is notorious for bad deals and lying.

It is obviously a good thing that the hostages are home. It's something I've been wanting for a while, and I kept calling out Bibi when he chose to torpedo multiple peace and ceasefire talks. He had thousands of Israelis protest against him and his administation's actions.

Given Trump's public quotes and his record on Gaza I think the glazing going on in the media at the moment is utterly disgusting and one more reason why the fascist takeover of America is so successful. I'm sorry, but someone who is stabbing you doesn't deserve a "thank you" for putting a band aid on a small cut in between stabbings.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Exactly this. If Palestine has not been officially recognised or completely absorbed by Israel, this “peace deal” is only a ceasefire. It might last a decade, or a century, but there is no peace.
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Oh you putting the bar too high, what about 2 months or whenever the upcoming war with Iran will end?
I suspect, Israel and US couldn’t afford a two front war, so they made a “peace” with Palestine only to come and finish later what’s left.
 
The Garlon said:
What a stupid question. What does running for mayor of New York have to do with Hamas? I wouldn't answer they stupid shit either.
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I would agree with you if… but there’s one thing: Mamdani did loudly declare that he would arrest Netanyahu if he came to New York. That’s fair—his opinion and all that. But when it comes to hamas, he’s not nearly as upfront. As some would say, “You’re conflating hamas with Palestinians!” From his answer, I can tell that he really is. Based on what he said, I can conclude that “he sees hamas as a legitimate force of resistance,” which is disgusting.
[His answer was all about peace, and he avoided condemning hamas. That means hamas fits into his imagined version of peace between Israel and Palestine. Yes, that’s my conclusion—but his refusal to speak out led me to it, and that’s his problem as a politician.]

Yes, maybe he doesn’t support hamas per se—maybe he’s just being politically correct or doesn’t want to alienate certain voters. But even that alone means he doesn’t deserve to win. Speak out—you’re a politician; voters deserve to know what they’re voting for.
 
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Azas said:
Mamdani did loudly declare that he would arrest Netanyahu if he came to New York. That’s fair—his opinion and all that. But when it comes to hamas, he’s not nearly as upfront.
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That’s because Netanyahu coming to New York is 40x more likely than Hamas.
 
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