USA Politics

While I don't agree with "Death to Israel, Death to America" historical context is important.
There are countless countries that have suffered due to American intervention, have had their (often democratically elected!) governments violently overthrown. The CIA has involved itself in many coups. There are nations and people who associate America purely with the pain and suffering that they endured due to the US. A bit like how the eastern European countries see Russia.

As for the "Death to Israel", yes, there is antisemitism on the left as well. No one can deny that. But you also can't ignore that there are, once again, entire generations that know the state of Israel purely as a military force that continues to destabilize the region. Look at the kids in Gaza who are intentionally starved, who are shot in the genitals by IDF snipers when they thought they were getting aid and food, who have their parents, siblings and friends blown up in front of their eyes. It is absolutely understandable that a person who went through such traumas can grow up resenting and hating the states responsible for the root of that pain.

That said, putting any trust into Twitter accounts without actually googling something yourself in 2025 is misguided at best. Scrolling through that account for a minute shows a very clear anti-Palestinian bias. That's all I'll say on this matter.

I stand by what I mentioned earlier: Right wing extremism is on the rise and responsible for the majority of terrorist activity. The US is descending into fascism. The rule of law and the Constitution are violated by the ruling administration. A couple of left-wing influencers or activists giving a speech with inflammatory phrases is in no way comparable to what is happening on the right.
 
I agree that whackos on any point in the political spectrum are disturbing but it doesn’t equivocate one side with the other.

The reactionary populist movement in the US has, pardon the term, rat-fucked the US political structure to where this type of news is now “normal.”

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/23/politics/trump-epstein-maxwell-justice-department-analysis

Now, if either an authoritarian or paradoxically an anarchist radical left gained power, I’d be disturbed about that. But, at least here, the left when in power aren’t anywhere near as extreme as the right have become.
 
Azas said:
I didn’t Google anything about this woman—I’m kind of trusting the Twitter account that posted it. To me, figures like her on the far left seem just as crazy as far-right lunatics.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1947594586953494831

It seems she supports Palestine. She is definitely pro hamas. Because "death to Israel" thing. So, far left are as bad as far right.
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Azas, I want to make sure you know you’re heard on your point that people anywhere on the political spectrum can say and do crazy or inflammatory shit.

I think some of the challenge is balancing political pragmatism, ideals, and the democratic process against extremism and bad optics.

I for one acknowledge that not everyone on the left is a 100% altruistic, good person. Further, some people on the left are downright batshit crazy.

But, I’m also not going to use that to invalidate concepts like public healthcare, equal rights, less economic disparity, etc that the left are for more than the right.

But we do have to be careful that the left looks more like Sweden or Canada and not the USSR at any time during its existence or Barcelona circa 1936.
 
Lost in a lost world said:
But we do have to he careful that the left looks more like Sweden or Canada and not the USSR at any time during its existence or Barcelona circa 1936.
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Lol, Sweden is mini USA at this point. What "Left"? We're going triple down economics, New Public Management, deregulations, privatizations, the world's most extreme school system with tax funded corporate owned schools and less and less social programs.
 
Lost in a lost world said:
It’s “socialist” by American standards.

I suppose the idea most of us here have of Sweden may not reflect its political reality.

Okay, we’ll stick with Canada. I’ve yet to hear a Canadian complain much beyond nuanced politics there.
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There's massive difference between Sweden 2025 and Sweden 2005 and even more compared to the late 80s. I think the public perception of Sweden is that of how it was in the late 80's and 90s (when the transition started to happen).

You know that the education system here is broken when Trump has flaunted copying key aspects of it.
 
Yax said:
There's massive difference between Sweden 2025 and Sweden 2005 and even more compared to the late 80s. I think the public perception of Sweden is that of how it was in the late 80's and 90s (when the transition started to happen).

You know that the education system here is broken when Trump has flaunted copying key aspects of it.
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Ouch, that is a bad sign. Yes, Sweden of the 80s and early 2000s is the lasting image here.

Which begs the question: is any country happy with their government right now? Canada and New Zealand seem safe bets.
 
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I’ll also say this, and this may just be part of my American background.

Keeping political beliefs out of it, a lot of people I’ve known who identify as conservative have been fun to hang around as long as we have music, interest in history, sports, or something else in common.

I don’t mean far right conspiracy theory conservatives or MAGA people but the more libertarian kind who don’t hate anyone but want fewer regulations. They’re, in my opinion, misguided politically but also aren’t usually heavy political thinkers. The few who are more academic are focused on economics, foreign policy, etc, but are still tolerant on civil rights.

Lots of old school conservatives I know do not like the big spending bills the current Republican party are pushing through and think the tariffs are dumb. A few have expressed to me that they feel their political party has been hijacked and they’re waiting it out until it goes back to the way it was (sometimes they mean pre-W years). They still won’t vote Democrat, though.
 
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Lost in a lost world said:
I’ll also say this, and this may just be part of my American background.

Keeping political beliefs out of it, a lot of people I’ve known who identify as conservative have been fun to hang around as long as we have music, interest in history, sports, or something else in common.

I don’t mean far right conspiracy theory conservatives or MAGA people but the more libertarian kind who don’t hate anyone but want fewer regulations. They’re, in my opinion, misguided politically but also aren’t usually heavy political thinkers. The few who are more academic are focused on economics, foreign policy, etc, but are still tolerant on civil rights.

Lots of old school conservatives I know do not like the big spending bills the current Republican party are pushing through and think the tariffs are dumb. A few have expressed to me that they feel their political party has been hijacked and they’re waiting it out until it goes back to the way it was (sometimes they mean pre-W years). They still won’t vote Democrat, though.
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Conservatives as a whole did not used to be inherently bad people. Sure, I disagree with them on a ton of things and I think they are completely wrong on a lot of things. But we're not dealing with Conservatives anymore, we're dealing with MAGA.

MAGA is a brain-rot, brain-dead cult. It has turned American politics into a joke. Conservatives, by default, are now MAGA because they refuse to break party lines even when their party has been ripped apart from the inside out by the Cockroach King. Giving people the benefit of the doubt whom you disagree with used to be the norm. It's what made political discourse possible without treating those with different party alignments like literal enemies. Anyone who still votes Republican even while disagreeing with Trump is just as responsible as the MAGA cultists.

This is what we've been reduced to.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Conservatives as a whole did not used to be inherently bad people. Sure, I disagree with them on a ton of things and I think they are completely wrong on a lot of things. But we're not dealing with Conservatives anymore, we're dealing with MAGA.

MAGA is a brain-rot, brain-dead cult. It has turned American politics into a joke. Conservatives, by default, are now MAGA because they refuse to break party lines even when their party has been ripped apart from the inside out by the Cockroach King. Giving people the benefit of the doubt whom you disagree with used to be the norm. It's what made political discourse possible without treating those with different party alignments like literal enemies. Anyone who still votes Republican even while disagreeing with Trump is just as responsible as the MAGA cultists.

This is what we've been reduced to.
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Pretty much this. The conservatives who disagree with MAGA and abstain from voting? Fine, I can respect that. Disagreeing with MAGA and lamenting that the GOP has been hijacked but still voting for them? That's an incredibly shitty thing to do and directly responsible for all the stunts Trump and his admin are pulling.

I don't doubt that you can have a nice evening with most of them, as long as you stay clear of politics. But I also can't respect anyone who votes for Trump, especially when they claim to be disappointed with the direction of party but do nothing to hold them accountable in any way.
 
Another thing that frustrates me:

For whatever reason the entire left is supposed to stand trial for every single fringe opinion by some random activist. One person says some wild shit and now the entire left is generalized and accused of sharing that opinion.

On the other hand you have stuff like the recent Jubilee episode, where one of the right wingers outright admits to being a fascist, got fired from his job and now raised thousands of dollars, with the help of people who share his views. And that's just one example, the overall point being that the right is never held to the same standard. We're supposed to treat them all as individuals, a courtesy that is almost never extended to the left.
 
I agree with the notion that the far right is on the rise in both the U.S. and Europe. And I don’t believe this is happening solely because of some covert pro-russian propaganda—though that definitely plays a role. I think certain aspects of preceding policies simply weren’t very wise or sustainable. For example: uncontrolled immigration.

I also agree that, for now, the far left poses a smaller threat. But I firmly believe that if those ideologues ever came to power, they’d cause just as much damage as the far right. While the far-right archetype tends to resemble barroom thugs, the far left often comes in the form of educated professors—and they’d bring in communism in a heartbeat if given the chance.

I absolutely agree that the U.S. healthcare system is bad—frankly, even frightening. I definitely prefer the European model, and I can’t understand why, after all these years, the U.S. still hasn’t managed to create something more similar. I suppose it comes down to the fact that the U.S. is a more extreme version of capitalism.

I’ve always viewed Sweden as a very socially oriented country—maybe that’s an outdated perspective, but I still find it appealing. In fact, the entire Nordic region—Denmark, the Netherlands, and so on—strikes me as quite attractive in terms of societal models.

One more thing: so far, there’s no better alternative to Western democracy—especially its European version. None. Unless, of course, you’d rather live in places like russia, China, or Cuba. And so far, South American countries haven’t exactly carved out some inspiring new path either—there are too many problems there.

The West must hold on to what it has. And yes, improve it. But veering into extremes—whether far right or far left—would be a grave mistake.
 
Vaenyr said:
Another thing that frustrates me:

For whatever reason the entire left is supposed to stand trial for every single fringe opinion by some random activist. One person says some wild shit and now the entire left is generalized and accused of sharing that opinion.

On the other hand you have stuff like the recent Jubilee episode, where one of the right wingers outright admits to being a fascist, got fired from his job and now raised thousands of dollars, with the help of people who share his views. And that's just one example, the overall point being that the right is never held to the same standard. We're supposed to treat them all as individuals, a courtesy that is almost never extended to the left.
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It is frustrating that the left has more of a burden of managing optics and the far right seems to get away with being blatantly ridiculous.

I think it’s because the left is maybe more nuanced and the right succeeds through least common denominator politics.
 
Azas said:
One more thing: so far, there’s no better alternative to Western democracy—especially its European version. None. Unless, of course, you’d rather live in places like russia, China, or Cuba. And so far, South American countries haven’t exactly carved out some inspiring new path either—there are too many problems there.

The West must hold on to what it has. And yes, improve it. But veering into extremes—whether far right or far left—would be a grave mistake.
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just a couple of things.

Neither Russia nor China is a communist country anymore. In fact they haven't been for a long, long time.

Regarding Cuba I disagree. Their woes are mostly brought upon them by the US and the west with the trade embargo and what not. Not that it would be perfect, but definitely it wouldn't be in the state it is today.

The Netherlands is not part of the Nordic countries and in many ways it is one of the most right, "not extreme right" countries.

Denmark is not exactly the left's golden child either. Especially considering the way they treat immigrants. Finland has gone far right and just a couple of years ago I was talking with a Greek living in Sweden and he said to me a lot of Swedes vote far right, I think it was over 10% ag the time, but they just don't admit it.

Small wonder these countries appeal to republicans. Europe is being Americanized very fast.
 
And one more thing. The social structure you admire was mostly put inplace by leftists. The right is just trying to dismantle/privatize them, but it's not easy to do. If they had their way Europe would be America now.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
But we're not dealing with Conservatives anymore, we're dealing with MAGA.
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Exactly! A few years ago, they were even openly ridiculed by MAGA and other alt-right or far right as “cuckservatives.”

At they still fell in with the party line.

Those who didn’t like it such as Mitt Romney or Liz Cheney got smacked down hard by their party.

Not that Darth Vader’s daughter was so awesome but at least she made a stand.
 
Aggelos said:
Denmark is not exactly the left's golden child either. Especially considering the way they treat immigrants. Finland has gone far right and just a couple of years ago I was talking with a Greek living in Sweden and he said to me a lot of Swedes vote far right, I think it was over 10% ag the time, but they just don't admit it.
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10% my ass. Try around 20% this last election, but the Moderates and the Christian Conservatives have a slice of that voter category as well. The Sweden Democrats, far-right, are in a coalition with the current government since 2022 and have pushed through a lot of policy.
 
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