USA Politics

I would me more surprised (and disappointed) if we were not spying on the UN/other major countries. 

The Iran leak may be a benefit some of these Arab countries may need to finally stop sitting on the fence and quasi-supporting Iran for internal political reasons.
 
Forostar said:
E.g., now we know that
- the US has been spying the United Nations (even Ban Ki Moon himself)
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Once again, I ask myself where the surprise is. Sure, I didn't have evidence or proof, but come on, you need to be really naive to think they didn't do that.

I'm actually worried by this. It is quite obviously a narcissistic move by the Wikileaks guy. He doesn't care about any possible consequences his actions may have, he just loves to inflate his ego. The truth is, now Russia, China and Iran know many things that would be better for the West they didn't know about, while the West doesn't have comparable knowledge of those countries. It's a dangerous imbalance, provided by one guy who likes to style himself the patron saint of freedom of information.

Unless he now concentrates all his efforts to publishing comparable documents from countries like Russia, China or Iran, I will consider him nothing but a self-righteous arsehole.
 
Forbes has an interview with Julian Assange. Apparently, the next big leak will concern an American bank.

In a rare, two-hour interview conducted in London on November 11, Assange said that he’s still sitting on a trove of secret documents, about half of which relate to the private sector. And WikiLeaks’ next target will be a major American bank. “It will give a true and representative insight into how banks behave at the executive level in a way that will stimulate investigations and reforms, I presume,” he said, adding: “For this, there’s only one similar example. It’s like the Enron emails."
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Perun said:
I'm actually worried by this. It is quite obviously a narcissistic move by the Wikileaks guy. He doesn't care about any possible consequences his actions may have, he just loves to inflate his ego. The truth is, now Russia, China and Iran know many things that would be better for the West they didn't know about, while the West doesn't have comparable knowledge of those countries. It's a dangerous imbalance, provided by one guy who likes to style himself the patron saint of freedom of information.

Unless he now concentrates all his efforts to publishing comparable documents from countries like Russia, China or Iran, I will consider him nothing but a self-righteous arsehole.
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Agreed.  Isn't it a crime to hack and release sensitive national security information?  Not just in the U.S., but pretty much everywhere??  I recall reading even before this latest leak that he is a fugitive in hiding.  Who is sheltering this prick?  I read an article today that Ecuador is inviting him to move there... 
 
I have zero problems with this. It's good to know what super powers really know and do.

You want China? Here comes China (not from Chinese documents, but certainly Chinese information):

Wikileaks tells us that some high China officials have told South Korea that uniting South and North Korea is acceptable under Seoul's leadership. The relation between China and North Korea would not be as tight anymore. Instead they'd worry a lot about North Korea's nuclear ambitions.
 
Forostar said:
I have zero problems with this. It's good to know what super powers really know and do.

You want China? Here comes China (not from Chinese documents, but certainly Chinese information):

Wikileaks tells us that some high China officials have told South Korea that uniting South and North Korea is acceptable under Seoul's leadership. The relation between China and North Korea would not be as tight anymore. Instead they'd worry a lot about North Korea's nuclear ambitions.
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You didn't get my point. What does China know about the US?
 
I guess I indeed didn't. I don't understand it.

But I do think that the USA can take these leaks so I am not going to be too spastic about it.

Liking this or not liking this, that's the question.
Most American people won't like this because this whole thing is embarassing. But dangerous? I doubt it. There are no secret military missions in those leaks. Even if so, then the responsible embassy needs to be punished. These are no matters for correspondence via those channels.
 
I like the fact that this leaked, although most of the material is really unimportant. The really nice tidbits are those about Saudi Arabia supporting Al Qaeda (if I read that correctly). Some people are already talking that some of the material was deliberately placed in there in order to stir trouble and then leaked on purpose. :ninja:

In any case, I think that CD burners and/or enabled USB ports shouldn't be present on any government computer which can come in contact with sensitive material.
 
Ranko said:
Some people are already talking that some of the material was deliberately placed in there in order to stir trouble and then leaked on purpose. :ninja:
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This has crossed my mind, but of course, how do you prove it?  Maybe it is in USA's gov't best interest to have a Saudi-Iranian feud.  They need something to "neutralize" the latter.  Who knows?! 
 
Perun said:
The truth is, now Russia, China and Iran know many things that would be better for the West they didn't know about, while the West doesn't have comparable knowledge of those countries.
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And? What's our interest in this, as Western next-door people? Nothing.
China is the less hypocrite country that I can bring in mind. Also, unlike West, it doesn't interfere in other countries' business. It currently controls Africa, but no African has been suffered from that. How many dictatorships did 'we' the Westerns established in that continent, how many corruption, in the name of democracy, or whatever we like to call it. Or Iraq.

The world that West created is ugly and I don't care if it collapses or not. I have no interests to keep this alive. On the other hand, some ideals came from this world, democracy, equality, justice, freedom. Those ideals is what it matters, not to preserve our power by faultily using and abusing them.

The best thing being a next-door Western, is the seek for the truth. This is what this -yes probably egomaniac if that matters- man does. The anger is biggest towards the big Western countries, cause they are the most hypocrite. Interpol now is searching for this man, but I'm not sure if it would be the same if he had unveiled some Iranian or Chinese secrets.

*No, next door people, we do have some privileges. In our countries, we still live well. At least, comparing to the rest of the world. But like it or not, this is the product of tons of innocent blood shed. That's what I don't care to defend the Western World.
 
______no5 said:
China is the less hypocrite country that I can bring in mind.
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:blink:

Have you ever seen this picture:

Tiananmen-Square-BW-Posters.jpg


And they call themselves "People's Republic" - that is hypocrisy defined.
 
So one's a hypocrite and self-righteous asshole if he digs out dirty laundry of one mafia cell, not every one of them?
Bullshit.

I can't believe that some people here are saying that Russia and China have the same extent of international influence as United States.
 
United States is a falling Empire, Zare. China is rising and they do it in a way that was never seen before. Damit, they count more than 5000 years of constant history, it's not peanuts.

And, no. As far as I know, their influence in Africa is just huge. China is the number 1 player there. US still controls the Western world and some instruments like WB, IMF, UN etc, but all these are quickly becoming a past as there was too much abuse on the principles. The world as we knew it, is just falling...
 
a) the US is not an empire in any stretch of the classic sense of the term
b) China is certainly on the rise, but honestly from the era of Mao and the Nationalists they really had nowhere to go but up.  Over the long term, India might be the more advanced country than China, but in either case, they have a long way to go to catch the US (or Europe).
c) I would argue with declining, certianly there is a rough patch right now, but fundamentally the US is solid and can weather these kinds of set backs.
d) I would agree that the IMF/UN are failed institutions, but not so much because of abuse (though there certainly is plenty of corruption within those institutions) as much as they over stretched their realistic power, they are not World Governments/banks.
 
a) No, not the classic sense. The last one of that kind, was the British Empire.
b) Absolutely not. India's constitution (democracy) plus various other issues (low level of education, various religions /languages) don't make it possible. Let's wait first to see if it will remains a country after some time at all!
c) I agree. In one sense, now it starts the best period for the people of US: More people will become more aware for the outside world, I'm certain about that. More thinkers, more movements, etc. You can see it in France and UK, still they have something of their past.
d) I said abuse of principles, as I see it, we say practically the same thing.
 
Perun said:
As long as you're not asking me to compare...
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I would like to know your opinion about the mentioned hypocrisy and yes, why not? compare.


*
the input I have for China from various Western people that actually live and have families there, is extremely positive. They all say, forget about what you hear or read, this kind of stuff. They all describe a wonderful society that still keeps some of its old values...
 
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