USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
You spent the last year criticizing Biden for his actions in Ukraine and parroting the kind of right wing talking points that helped Trump get elected. How do you feel about that?
Azas
Aliens Activity Area
Biden was 100 better than Trump but that being said... I stand my ground: Biden was weak, he was all about half measures. AS OBAMA! So, nice try, but.... Impotent politic of democrats brought us here. We all knew that Donald is a mad dog. But it was Biden administration who tied one hand behind Ukraine's back. And that's a fact. So, democrats are deep in the shit also. That's how I see it. That's how WE see it in Eastern Europe and Ukraine.
chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
At the end of the day, whether you believe it to be half-measures or not: Biden helped Ukraine and Trump will not help Ukraine.
And that's why we're in this situation. Because people would rather burn it all to the ground rather than come to the table and figure this out like adults.
Black Abyss Babe
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold
The trouble, though, is that we're not dealing with "adults": we're dealing with Putin and Trump and their respective cronies ...
That's for sure, but I'm mostly commenting on how we got here with Trump in the first place. A lot of general apathy and sentiment that both options are equally bad has now resulted in Trump getting elected twice.
In terms of what's necessary now, yes dealing with people like Trump/Putin completely changes how to handle the situation and I'm not sure how or if it's even possible at this point.
Azas
Aliens Activity Area
"...rather than come to the table and figure this out like adults."
This is so bad and scary on so many different levels. To sit at one table with the murderer and the one who breaks all international laws. Who laughs at the West from his cave in Moscow. Instead of shooting him as a mad animal. Instead of showing him that the West still has some dignity and principles left. With such approach US soon will be giving up all of Eastern Europe (if not all Europe) and all of its commitments. I said it many times, appeasement does not work with a dictator, it only shows to him that all he is doing is justified and that he is winning. It shows to him that his assessment of the West was true and right (that the West is decadent and weak, self absorbed and only speaks rightful things but does not implements them with full force when faces an opponent who is willing to fight)
To sit at one table with the one who is faking negotiations and continues to kill and erode. Yet you, on the other hand, try to convince yourself that "we're dealing like adults". Yeah, right. Adequate adults would have eliminated putin and his cronies in the first year of the war. Adequate adults would give Ukraine all the necessary weapons to achieve just peace.
But no, instead you think that it's my position that leads to "burning all to the ground". I'll tell you that with current U.S. politics threat of all out war just increased immensely. Now putin will start contemplate Baltics and "maybe i should test if NATO is just a paper tiger". And all of it, due to the indecisiveness of the West, due the postponement of what should have been done long ago. Monster putin is emboldened again and sees the light at the end of the tunnel...
This is so bad and scary on so many different levels. To sit at one table with the murderer and the one who breaks all international laws. Who laughs at the West from his cave in Moscow. Instead of shooting him as a mad animal. Instead of showing him that the West still has some dignity and principles left. With such approach US soon will be giving up all of Eastern Europe (if not all Europe) and all of its commitments. I said it many times, appeasement does not work with a dictator, it only shows to him that all he is doing is justified and that he is winning. It shows to him that his assessment of the West was true and right (that the West is decadent and weak, self absorbed and only speaks rightful things but does not implements them with full force when faces an opponent who is willing to fight)
To sit at one table with the one who is faking negotiations and continues to kill and erode. Yet you, on the other hand, try to convince yourself that "we're dealing like adults". Yeah, right. Adequate adults would have eliminated putin and his cronies in the first year of the war. Adequate adults would give Ukraine all the necessary weapons to achieve just peace.
But no, instead you think that it's my position that leads to "burning all to the ground". I'll tell you that with current U.S. politics threat of all out war just increased immensely. Now putin will start contemplate Baltics and "maybe i should test if NATO is just a paper tiger". And all of it, due to the indecisiveness of the West, due the postponement of what should have been done long ago. Monster putin is emboldened again and sees the light at the end of the tunnel...
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chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
Who are we talking to?
honestly you completely misunderstood my post and what I was referring to. I hope other people didn’t have the same misinterpretation but I want to clarify just in case. This is a US politics thread and I am talking about the American electorate and elected officials dealing with the American political system. I am not talking about Putin or anything related to the invasion of Ukraine.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Congratulations America. You were told that the Republican candidate for president was a Russian puppet and he is proving it to be correct every day. Now repeating the absurd Moscow talking point that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that started the war.
Putler couldn't have dreamed of a better outcome (apart from a total military victory of course, but that was never realistic after the initial offensive failed).
Basically, Trump is saying to the world "an alliance with the US is worthless because we can turn the back on you tomorrow if it serves MY interests".
Putler couldn't have dreamed of a better outcome (apart from a total military victory of course, but that was never realistic after the initial offensive failed).
Basically, Trump is saying to the world "an alliance with the US is worthless because we can turn the back on you tomorrow if it serves MY interests".
No, you're misinterpreting this. It's about peace. Putin and Trump are negotiating the same way Germany and Britain negotiated over Czechoslovakia in 1938. And to remind you, Chamberlain concluded those negotiations with the reassuring words, "There is peace for our time."
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
I fear another analogy from 1938-39 is even more appropriate. Rubitrop-Molavrov pact incoming.
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
Clearly it was Poland's fault that Hitler invaded them.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
A Fawlty Towers reference is very, very tempting here but I won't mention it.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Your mistake is thinking that enough people in this country actually cared about Ukraine. I can tell you there’s plenty of people who don’t give a shit and see it as a bottomless hole we’re sinking money into that could go to the American people.
I don’t see it this way, especially because if we do stop supporting Ukraine that money won’t actually go to those who need it — but practically anyone who voted for Trump wasn’t doing it because they cared about the threat Russia posed. Matter of fact, they probably believed that Putin was an overhated fella.