Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
That applies to Greece. As far as I'm aware the hats worn by US soldiers don't even have a flag on. Weird standard to hold an entirely different culture to.
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
Stuff like that doesn't get leaked unintentionally. I'm guessing there are at least a few governors who aren’t convinced and either leaked that to the news or had a staffer do it. At any rate, it’s further evidence that this isn’t getting any better.
Also some reports that house democrats are waiting to see how tomorrow’s interview goes. I don’t really see how it can possibly fix anything here especially since it’s a pre-recorded interview that can be edited/he can have multiple attempts at answering a question if needed. If he comes off bad in that it will be devastating, but I also don’t really see a best case scenario salvaging anything here.
I still think there’s more than an outside chance that he pulls his candidacy tomorrow and the interview is about the transition. Everything leading up to it is not the behavior of a campaign that is “in it to win it.”
Edit: the timing is also crucial here. Everybody will have to deal with questions about Biden on the Sunday shows. If he gets out tomorrow that at least allows the conversation to turn toward the next steps instead of awkwardly dodging questions about Dems’ confidence in their own nominee.
Also some reports that house democrats are waiting to see how tomorrow’s interview goes. I don’t really see how it can possibly fix anything here especially since it’s a pre-recorded interview that can be edited/he can have multiple attempts at answering a question if needed. If he comes off bad in that it will be devastating, but I also don’t really see a best case scenario salvaging anything here.
I still think there’s more than an outside chance that he pulls his candidacy tomorrow and the interview is about the transition. Everything leading up to it is not the behavior of a campaign that is “in it to win it.”
Edit: the timing is also crucial here. Everybody will have to deal with questions about Biden on the Sunday shows. If he gets out tomorrow that at least allows the conversation to turn toward the next steps instead of awkwardly dodging questions about Dems’ confidence in their own nominee.
Flaming Blimp Crash
Ancient Mariner
Absolutely. I reckon it did come from one of the governors, although I imagine more low-level staffers are ready to sound the alarm. The debate was a house fire that could have been contained. The entire fallout an entire week later now shows the whole cul-de-sac is aflame.
Whitmer or Harris. Preferably Whitmer. Give it to me.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Newsom's strength is his communication skills (he utterly wiped the floor with Hannity, and landed a tie with DeSantis, in a debate setting that was heavily tilted in DeSantis' favor) which I think will benefit the Dems in the race. True, California can be used as a sour thumb, as could Michigan for Whitmer.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
I don’t know, the Republicans are responsible for replacing all the Michigan mayors with city managers, and their fingerprints are all over the Flint water crisis, and Whitmer was the target of a MAGA kidnapping and possible murder attempt, so she has a lot of ammunition in her purse.
Flaming Blimp Crash
Ancient Mariner
Michigan is essential for the Democratic Party to secure the White House and is a toss-up at this point. California is safe safe saaaaaaaaaaaaafely blue. Whitmer won re-election to the governorship by double digits in 2022. Demographically, Michigan is very similar to Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. If the Democratic Party can retain those three states and hold strongholds of Colorado and Virginia, the path to 270 electoral votes is secure.
Also, to play the identity politics game, abortion is a major issue this election and having a woman candidate lead the charge to restore Roe vs Wade would look good. It's a winning issue for Democrats and led to a lot of support during the midterms and special elections. For Biden to fumble that football so hard in the debate was a disgrace - he had Trump dead to rights on it and just whiffed.
To turn around Biden's debate performance, he's going to need to be on the campaign trail constantly to reverse the blow from it. He's now stated he doesn't have the energy to do so. Only chance he's going to have at this point is barring the mother of all October surprises or Trump keeling over.
Whitmer has a book out next week. If the switch was to be made, there's the first opportunity to begin introducing herself to a national audience during the press rounds.
I really don’t mean this to sound condescending and apologies if it does, but I think it’s really easy for people outside the US to underestimate how much of a liability being the governor of CA is for Newsom (and it is a liability to a lesser degree for former CA senator Harris as well). No matter where you are in America, red states, blue states, purple states, the one thing that unites them all is a shared disdain for California culture and politics. It could easily turn into a “make America California” type of race and could go south fast. On a similar note, I think Newsom has done a good job with his name ID and making himself a known figure even internationally, but to me he brings a lot more unnecessary baggage than any other possible candidate in the event of an open convention.
Michigan is a true swing state and is right in middle America. It’s racially diverse and very working class. Running someone from MI would actually be a huge boost to the Democratic Party’s brand imo. The fact that Whitmer was able to build a coalition to not just win there but have a landslide victory in a Republican favored year is a blueprint for how to sweep the rust belt states and keep the sunbelt competitive as well.
I believe whoever has the Friday interview has now said they will air it unedited and in whole.
____no5
Free Man
Agreed for brand reinforcement and she seems terrific. Hope she’s not toasted in case they nominate her and she looses against Trump.
But she could win. She could do it
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
The Stephanopoulos interview was not helpful. Biden still came off as old and halting in his delivery, and he seemed really out of touch with the reality of his situation, blowing off polls and pointing to the size of his rally audience as some kind of indicator of his popular support. It was painful to watch. He’s really got to go.
Flaming Blimp Crash
Ancient Mariner
That rally wasn't even terribly large. I only saw a clip of the interview and I agree with your assessment. Everyone is only going to be hyper-focused on his age at this point and he looked more tired in the interview than at his rally - and the interview was taped in the morning!
Meanwhile, on the Trump side of things, the media is finally starting to talk about Project 2025. Of course, they're not picking apart Trump's nonsensical assessment of it of "I've never heard of it before, I've no idea what you're talking about... but it's a very very bad plan... that I've never heard of... but the things that are listed in it are quite bad."
EDIT: Do want to note he looked good at the rally - but you need to get him speaking without a prepared speech cued up to a teleprompter to a live audience. Town halls are necessary like from back at the start of the week.
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I am watching it now.
You can certainly hear that he's not a young man in his voice, but I wouldn't say the content of the answers suggest any level of cognitive issues. Biden clearly understood the questions and provided reasonable, politician-style answers. He certainly avoids answering some questions, but that's not abnormal, again, for a politician in an interview. He occasionally halts his speech so he can sort out what he's saying next - normal for someone who stutters.
It's not the interview I would have told him to give, to be fair, pivoting to the record, pivoting to the record. It's not about the record, it's about whether Biden is able to fill the office of president.
When Stephanopolos does pin him down on the physical question, he gives a firm no to the question as to whether or not he is more frail than he was when he started office. When he is asked about a cognitive test, he's giving an answer that his staffers think are strong, but I'm pretty sure it won't take.
I will say one thing, Joe knows his record inside and out, and he's able to recall it quickly. When Biden actually answers the questions on his health, he does a good job delivering fairly firm answers. But he can't get out of campaign mode. Maybe politicians can't, I don't know.
Do I think Biden has major cognitive decline? No, I'm afraid I don't. I see an 81 year old man who has had incredible burdens and is not the most vibrant 81 year old in the world, but is far from the least vibrant. He knows what's going on, he knows who he is, what he's doing, and what the stakes are, and he clearly thinks he can do the job.
You can certainly hear that he's not a young man in his voice, but I wouldn't say the content of the answers suggest any level of cognitive issues. Biden clearly understood the questions and provided reasonable, politician-style answers. He certainly avoids answering some questions, but that's not abnormal, again, for a politician in an interview. He occasionally halts his speech so he can sort out what he's saying next - normal for someone who stutters.
It's not the interview I would have told him to give, to be fair, pivoting to the record, pivoting to the record. It's not about the record, it's about whether Biden is able to fill the office of president.
When Stephanopolos does pin him down on the physical question, he gives a firm no to the question as to whether or not he is more frail than he was when he started office. When he is asked about a cognitive test, he's giving an answer that his staffers think are strong, but I'm pretty sure it won't take.
I will say one thing, Joe knows his record inside and out, and he's able to recall it quickly. When Biden actually answers the questions on his health, he does a good job delivering fairly firm answers. But he can't get out of campaign mode. Maybe politicians can't, I don't know.
Do I think Biden has major cognitive decline? No, I'm afraid I don't. I see an 81 year old man who has had incredible burdens and is not the most vibrant 81 year old in the world, but is far from the least vibrant. He knows what's going on, he knows who he is, what he's doing, and what the stakes are, and he clearly thinks he can do the job.
Flaming Blimp Crash
Ancient Mariner
The line that was concerning for me was his response to how would he personally take it if Trump were to beat him. He said he'd be okay because he know he gave it his all.
You're trying to tell the nation what's at stake and that's your mindset? Not a great motivator.
You're trying to tell the nation what's at stake and that's your mindset? Not a great motivator.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
He has lost perspective and is ostensibly too motivated by the potential of a personal legacy of a two term presidency.
Flaming Blimp Crash
Ancient Mariner
Word is House Minority Leader Jeffries is taking more and more calls of concern from reps on if Biden is the path forward. There's a forming coalition of Democratic senators that are looking for another path as well. Hell, even governor of Massachusetts who was on the all-governor call earlier in the week is still skeptical.
White House is losing the messaging on the post-debate fallout, so I don't think it's just Joe himself losing perspective.
I agree with LC about the interview. Biden gave standard politician answers. I didn’t see someone who appeared to be suffering from cognitive decline, but I am also not going to pretend to be a medical expert or someone who is able to assess that based on tv appearances. I do know that if this Biden had shown up to the debate last week, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
But that’s not what happened.
I see a clear sense of frustration from Biden over the fact that he has a great record and a good enough economy to run on. If he were 20 years younger, heck even 10 years younger, he would glide to re-election. He wants this race to be about his record but it’s not and never will be. He’s failing to speak to valid concerns of voters that he needs. He seems more concerned about preserving his legacy by not becoming a one term president than the bigger picture of how close Trump is to becoming president again. He and his campaign are failing to directly address the situation and if they truly think yesterday was an acceptable performance, then it really is over.
I am not so much concerned with Biden’s ability to do the job as I am with Biden’s ability to carry a message and win the campaign. He has no vision for the next term, he still clearly doesn’t want to talk about abortion which is democrats’ strongest issue, and in general he just isn’t speaking to what voters are looking for. Maybe the debate was just a bad night, but some things are bad enough to cost the election. Every day that things continue In this direction, I’m more convinced that he is going to be unable to win and needs to step aside.
I thought one of the tells from the interview was that he didn’t really directly address the hypothetical of what he would do if democratic leaders held a meeting with him and asked him to step aside. I wonder if that meeting is coming and if the lord almighty Nancy Pelosi is able to talk him out of containing like this. There has been a clear pivot on the house side of trying to figure out if they can still win the majority in a scenario where Biden is losing. Not a good sign.
But that’s not what happened.
I see a clear sense of frustration from Biden over the fact that he has a great record and a good enough economy to run on. If he were 20 years younger, heck even 10 years younger, he would glide to re-election. He wants this race to be about his record but it’s not and never will be. He’s failing to speak to valid concerns of voters that he needs. He seems more concerned about preserving his legacy by not becoming a one term president than the bigger picture of how close Trump is to becoming president again. He and his campaign are failing to directly address the situation and if they truly think yesterday was an acceptable performance, then it really is over.
I am not so much concerned with Biden’s ability to do the job as I am with Biden’s ability to carry a message and win the campaign. He has no vision for the next term, he still clearly doesn’t want to talk about abortion which is democrats’ strongest issue, and in general he just isn’t speaking to what voters are looking for. Maybe the debate was just a bad night, but some things are bad enough to cost the election. Every day that things continue In this direction, I’m more convinced that he is going to be unable to win and needs to step aside.
I thought one of the tells from the interview was that he didn’t really directly address the hypothetical of what he would do if democratic leaders held a meeting with him and asked him to step aside. I wonder if that meeting is coming and if the lord almighty Nancy Pelosi is able to talk him out of containing like this. There has been a clear pivot on the house side of trying to figure out if they can still win the majority in a scenario where Biden is losing. Not a good sign.