USA Politics

Regarding the January 6th insurrection: for that to actually go to trial still requires a mountain of evidence, both documented and anecdotal, to come through the courts. While everyone saw what happened, it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump knew what he was doing and intended for the riots to occur. And while it's certainly most people's view that that is the case, that is not enough for trial. Trump's lawyers will simply say that "Trump merely wanted to inspire courage and not violence and that the actions of a few misguided patriots do not reflect Trump's intentions."

So while it has certainly taken its time to gather steam, the Jan 6th indictments are coming. But if they go to court too soon and don't have enough evidence, Trump will have caused an insurrection on live TV and gotten away with it.

The court system in the US can be ridiculously slow and litigation of this nature takes a long ass time to gain traction, but it's necessary to make sure that when a case goes to court, it has all the weight behind it that it needs to prove a crime was committed.
 
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chaosapiant said:
Regarding the January 6th insurrection: for that to actually go to trial still requires a mountain of evidence, both documented and anecdotal, to come through the courts. While everyone saw what happened, it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump knew what he was doing and intended for the riots to occur. And while it's certainly most people's view that that is the case, that is not enough for trial. Trump's lawyers will simply say that "Trump merely wanted to inspire courage and not violence and that the actions of a few misguided patriots do not reflect Trump's intentions."

So while it has certainly taken its time to gather steam, the Jan 6th indictments are coming. But if they go to court too soon and don't have enough evidence, Trump will have caused an insurrection on live TV and gotten away with it.

The court system in the US can be ridiculously slow and litigation of this nature takes a long ass time to gain traction, but it's necessary to make sure that when a case goes to court, it has all the weight behind it that it needs to prove a crime was committed.
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This is why his own Party should have shown some reflections and have taken him down on the spot. I remember by reading the US press back then, there were ways to achieve that if Republicans went along.
 
____no5 said:
This is why his own Party should have shown some reflections and have taken him down on the spot. I remember by reading the US press back then, there were ways to achieve that if Republicans went along.
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They still have to follow the entire process outlined above. Them being republicans doesn’t give them special leeway to prosecute Trump.
 
This way was not involving any justice processes, it was a political treatment, impeachment or something like that. That would guarantee that Trump could not be re-elected.
 
chaosapiant said:
It’s not a “Democrat” thing to say he’s one of the most vile men to ever walk the earth, it’s a human thing.
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Exaggerating much? I mean, he's a boor, a rube, a liar, a bastard and most likely a criminal (I'm not truly up to date with the state of things), he disgusts me as he should disgust any real conservative (no capital C), but there are definitely much worse people right as we speak. I mean, look at Putin, for example. Or compare him with Sese Seko Mobutu, the Moors murderers, Bokassa, Idi Amin, Rose and Fred West, the blokes in charge of Unit 731, Mengele, the Tool Box killers, the father of Genie (the feral child), Dahmer, Richard Chase... the list goes on.

Perun said:
I'm sure the women who were the victims of his sexual assaults would appreciate hearing this.
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I'm torn on this. If I should put my cynical hat on and compare this with a relatively recent similar situation here in my country, I would argue that each and every time you get a sexual offender in these highest places, it is well known and has been so for quite some time, but the matter has been sat upon until it was suitable and proper to pursue. Especially with an election coming, for example.

Now, I'm no conspiracy theoretist, I believe every accusation that's thrown his way, also I wish Trump would just go away, I hate him (I hate Biden too, though), I keep saying that both parties are inherently toxic and vile and will bring destruction upon the US (it's just the question of which one will do it more quickly)...

But I wouldn't be so naive to think that the hammer of justice just randomly appeared. You know, right now. That it's completely impartial. That's one thing I'm willing to give the Trumpets.

I don't think that takes away from any crimes or the victims themselves.

Anyway, I don't think I have participated in this thread much - I've been just silently reading - and I probably won't be doing this again.

Like I said, I hate US politics. I deeply, passionately hate both of the main parties and their politicians. I guess those of you who know me probably also know what is my issues with both Dems and Reps and why I swallow vomit just thinking about them.

Eh, whatever, sorry for the intrusion.
 
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JudasMyGuide said:
But I wouldn't be so naive to think that the hammer of justice just randomly appeared. You know, right now. That it's completely impartial. That's one thing I'm willing to give the Trumpets.
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It generally takes roughly 2 years for a major investigation to produce an indictment. Trump’s most recent likely criminal shenanigans occurred right around the end of 2020 and beginning of 2021, as they relate to 2020 post-election meddling, the Jan 6 2021 insurrection, and post-presidential handling of classified documents. Simpler investigations for related events finished a bit sooner and are starting to produce sentences. None of this is in any way abnormal timewise, except maybe the NY state Stormy Daniels payoff case.

It is a bit naive to assume corruption in the timing of these cases.
 
Okay, I'm not against standing corrected - like I said, I was also taking into consideration a similar situation here in Czechia... but I admit that one was smaller in scope and more fittingly proper in this regard, timewise. AFAIK there are even insiders who say that yes, the relevant institutions could have acted sooner, but they didn't.

Might be different for 'Murica and I don't contest anything you said.

So that's actually good news. Since I'd like to see Trump gone, the cleaner it is, the better.
 
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Some people say that Biden will step down and Newsom (!) will be the primary Democrat candidate. Have you heard of it? Theory says that time window is until Thanksgiving.

I don’t think he will, but keep hearing this for a while (since Newsom did Hannity) and since it has now been in Joe Rogan’s show, I’ll post it right here and see what happens.

I guess we’ll know by Thanksgiving :D

 
Yea, I mean his podcast interviews can be interesting some times, but I'd never use Joe Rogan as some kind of accurate political barometer.
 
LooseCannon said:
Joe Rogan is an idiot who knows nothing. He's just saying stuff at random. Joe Biden is running.
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Newsom is positioning himself, either for 2028, VP for Biden (would be a good choice, Harris isn't a voter locomotive) or in case of anything like a health condition would stop Biden, who is hell bent on running; he has focused his message for the past year and is working at highlighting the Bidenomics doctrine, which is rather successful.
 
VP for Biden would make sense, but isn’t Harris the standard choice for VP? I mean have we ever had an incumbent changing the ticket before?
 
I think Harris is staying, but the ticket needs to inject some enthusiasm and Harris isn’t going to provide that.
 
Harris is staying. The Dems will never be able to run two white guys again. Newsom is looking at 2028 and as an "in case of emergency, break glass" guy for 2024 (IE, Joe Biden dies or is otherwise medically unable to run)
 
chaosapiant said:
Yea, I mean his podcast interviews can be interesting some times, but I'd never use Joe Rogan as some kind of accurate political barometer.
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He's an idiot who brings on other idiots to uncritically spew their nonsense to a captive audience of idiots.
 
Joe Rogan is an idiot who doesn’t know anything. In general, Some of the speculation around Biden 2024 blows my mind. There was probably a world where he didn’t run again but that ship sailed shortly after the midterms. There are three main factors here:

1: Biden has an incumbency advantage and can campaign for the general while the Republicans fight out a primary through next summer. Stepping down gives that up for very little comparative payoff.

2: Harris can’t run in a general. Maybe when they picked her in 2020 there was an intention to step aside in 2024 but the circumstances around the race have changed (I don’t think Biden anticipated a Trump comeback) and Harris’ popularity is way too low. It’s going to look really ugly if Biden steps aside and endorses someone like Gavin Newsom over his own VP (who also happens to be a black woman).*

3: Biden presided over the most successful midterm for a president’s own party since 9/11. While it’s pretty obvious that democrats did well in spite of Biden, pride is a powerful thing and I think the midterm result destroyed any last consideration of not running again.

*This point also applies to Harris’ VP position. She isn’t going anywhere. Even in the best of best case scenarios, a change of VP slot isn’t going to do anything more than a bump in polls for a week.

Gavin Newsom is clearly playing the long game to be a 2028 front runner. He’s doing a lot of smart stuff, but he wouldn’t be even in my top 5 2028 candidates. We’ll see though, if he keeps it up he will be a clear choice by the time we get there. Then again, did anybody have Obama as a favorite for 2008 all the way back in 2003? A lot can change in five years.
 
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Yet if Biden dies or retires during his second term nobody wants Harris for president, while Newsom is way more likable to take over if he were the VP.
 
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