USA Politics

I have to vent a little bit. It is exteremely frustrating to see the amount of rhetoric out there claiming the people that stormed the Capitol, "really didn't do anything." Really? and how the BLM protesters were violent and burnt local businesses and blah blah blah. BLM protesters weren't armed, most of the violence was directed at them and property damage can always be repaired. The Capitol protesters on the other hand, an alarming amount of them were armed, they killed police, they were in full gear, had handcuffs at the ready, you know, in case they could kidnap a senator or two. They stole government and personal property, made their intentions clear that they wanted Mike Pence dead, but you know.... burning a barbershop is unthinkable. What fucking reality do these people live in?
 
Zare said:
In hyper-materialistic reality. They only care about their possessions.
Click to expand...
Nah. Just the "our side/guy can do no wrong" universe so any evidence of otherwise has to be met with either "fake news", "whataboutism" or a combination of the two. It's like a programmed response, almost like a reflex.
 
Yax said:
Nah. Just the "our side/guy can do no wrong" universe so any evidence of otherwise has to be met with either "fake news", "whataboutism" or a combination of the two. It's like a programmed response, almost like a reflex.
Click to expand...
Funny you bring that up. Saw a MEME today that said the second impeachment trial looks like the KKK trials of the 19th century. It didn't matter how much evidence there was against them, it didn't matter if they admitted to the crimes, they always got acquitted, because the jury, judges and state officials were Klan members as well.
 
Onhell said:
Funny you bring that up. Saw a MEME today that said the second impeachment trial looks like the KKK trials of the 19th century. It didn't matter how much evidence there was against them, it didn't matter if they admitted to the crimes, they always got acquitted, because the jury, judges and state officials were Klan members as well.
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s pathetic, just as it was pathetic for the Democrats to protect Bill Clinton when he was clearly guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice, and just as it was pathetic for Gerald Ford to pardon Richard Nixon. Despite the stated goals of this country, we keep proving to ourselves over and over again that we’re OK with presidents being above the law.

But regardless of your political leanings, you really have to wonder what sort of offense would lead to a president getting convicted in the Senate if a months-long campaign of lying about the election results building up to inciting a physical attack on another branch of government doesn’t meet that bar. I mean, what the fuck. I could agree with a president 100% on policy and it would still be a no-brainer to convict and remove the fucker and ban him from ever holding public office again.

I can only hope that federal and/or state justice departments hold this guy accountable for some fraction of the crimes he’s committed.
 
Jer said:
OK with politicians being above the law.
Click to expand...

Happens in most of the world. A big problem in most of the world.

Yax said:
Nah. Just the "our side/guy can do no wrong" universe so any evidence of otherwise has to be met with either "fake news", "whataboutism" or a combination of the two. It's like a programmed response, almost like a reflex.
Click to expand...

Sure it can be that too. I was reading up recently on how LA riots started. Apparently a store owner killed a black girl because he thought she's stealing. In the end, girl wasn't stealing. But even if she were, you don't kill people for stealing. Apparently an orange juice is worth more than a human life. It's not related, but my answer was influenced by it.

I would not want rioting anywhere near me. Near me is not a productive place to riot, there's no golden palaces or pyramids here, no power to shake, but there's no army on the street either. So you can demonstrate.

The solution for "small business" would be that US removes all the long rifles from the important streets so protesters can actually protest in front of institutions and not wreck havoc on the civilian parts of the city.

We had a pretty fucked up veteran's protest denying government its legitimacy, encampment in front of governmental institution lasting for 2 years or so, arms, threats, IEDs involved, police clashes, media chaos, etc. Had they thrown in forces to scatter them around, the unrest would exponentially increase and it would spread everywhere.

US gov't seems to throw everyone equally under the bus and enjoy the result of chaotic divide and conquer. Small bussiness owners vs BLM = people vs people.
 
Zare said:
Happens in most of the world. A big problem in most of the world.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Here in Turkey it has gone full circle though, because the government actively targets opposition politicians through their influence on the judiciary, which means MPs' immunity is the only thing protecting them from corrupt judicial processes. Many who have opposed MPs' immunity because of its ethical implications now have been forced to temporarily defend MPs' immunity because of its ethical implications. It's a bizarre world.
 
Absolutely. In my country the supreme court isn't independent of politics. We even had judges running for positions with very vocal policies.

I think stuff works in small, rich countries where these people have a true personal interest in what's happening in the country (cause it's in their literal backyard). Like Iceland, perhaps. Anywhere else there'll be exploitation of power.
 
Zare said:
I think stuff works in small, rich countries where these people have a true personal interest in what's happening in the country (cause it's in their literal backyard). Like Iceland, perhaps. Anywhere else there'll be exploitation of power.
Click to expand...
True, but even small places can degenerate if repressive local powers emerge and can get away with it. Part of it has to be related to cultural and moral attitudes, I feel, the response from the local public in cases of exploitation of power is far less enabling in some places.
 
So Trump has been acquitted from his second impeachment, except this time there was much more bipartisan support for conviction (the most bipartisan support since Andrew Johnson’s fell short by one vote).

Frankly, I was expecting 3 Republicans at most to cross over. 7 senators is really incredible. On the other hand, this was such an open and shut case that the fact that 100 senators didn’t vote for conviction is a really bad sign for the country.

The senators themselves are fairly interesting. We have the expected suspects, Romney, Collins, and Murkowski. Ben Sasse has been a pretty vocal Trump critic and Cassidy voted yes on the first impeachment vote on Monday so he isn’t much of a surprise either. Both are from safe seats and can probably easily fend off a primary challenge.

Pat Toomey and Richard Burr are from swing states and their seats are up in 2022. Toomey is from PA, which Biden won, and Burr is from NC, which Trump won. Burr has said he won’t run again, but he hasn’t formally retired yet. This seems like an indication to me that he may run again and thinks that this is the politically favorable move. In general though, NC is red enough still that Burr’s best bet is probably to be a republican. I doubt his seat will be as competitive as Thillis’ was this last year. Toomey’s vote probably indicates that he can be a gettable swing vote going forward, since he is probably going to be the most vulnerable republican senator.

With all of that being said, I don’t expect us to get another high profile bipartisan vote like this in the next two years, but it could be a decent bellweather for who is and isn’t a nonstarter for bringing Republicans over. In other words, if a republican senator didn’t vote to convict Trump, they’re not going to vote for COVID relief or anything else Dems put up.

The COVID bill will be the next thing to watch for. I doubt it comes down to party lines, you will probably get up to 3 or 4 republicans on board. Like I said before, Pat Toomey will be the one to watch for the next couple years.

Democrats also easily have the votes to bar Trump from running again, and they should do that.
 
McConnell is a hypocrite. Only not for impeachment because Trump is not President anymore. But that is bullshit according to many American law specialists. And on top of that: he made the impeachment delay until Trump was no President anymore. The man had some agenda or something.
 
Forostar said:
McConnell is a hypocrite. Only not for impeachment because Trump is not President anymore. But that is bullshit according to many American law specialists. And on top of that: he made the impeachment delay until Trump was no President anymore. The man had some agenda or something.
Click to expand...
He wants to have it both ways by trying to verbally condemn Trump but doesn’t want to take the vote because of partisanship.

The GOP is in an interesting position, although I think the civil war talk is overblown. It might hurt them in the midterms, but once there’s a nominee in 24 they will coalesce around that person’s ideology, whether it’s trump or someone else. That said, there seems to be a dynamic at play that suggests the House gop thinks Trump is key to taking back the majority there, while McConnell pretty clearly thinks Trump is responsible for him losing his senate majority. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out the next couple years.
 
Interesting? It will be terrible.

It is terrible how the Republicans allowed the extreme right in their party to grow further and further. The extreme right will feel encouraged by Trump's acquittal and will continue to support him. The extreme right all over the world will come out into the open more and more, showing their racism, conspiracy theories, lies and hate. More violence can be expected.
 
I agree, it’s terrible. And since McConnell just got re-elected, he could have voted his conscience here, and he just didn’t. I guess his caucus decided that they feared Trump more than they feared Moscow Mitch.

At least we got the most bipartisan impeachment votes in U.S. history, and Trump will forever be a twice-impeached president, and currently responsible for half the impeachments the country’s ever had. At least that’s something.
 
Jer said:
At least we got the most bipartisan impeachment votes in U.S. history, and Trump will forever be a twice-impeached president, and currently responsible for half the impeachments the country’s ever had. At least that’s something.
Click to expand...
That is something. And something the reps will use to galvanize voter turnout. Let's hope the Dems will match their enthusiasm.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top