Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
@KidInTheDark666 Just out of curiosity, why did you like this post?
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
Because I liked what you said.
Why do your parents hate liberals so much?
The last time an impeachment proceeding was brought was in 1998. Motions to impeach have been filed and ignored in basically every Congress, but other than 1974 and 1998 didn't go anywhere, not even as far as it's gone today.
If Donald Trump attempted to use a quid pro quo to gain political help in the election that is a crime. Period. His own transcript seems to indicate that he did.
If Donald Trump attempted to use a quid pro quo to gain political help in the election that is a crime. Period. His own transcript seems to indicate that he did.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
The orange is a traitor and a good portion of the voter base doesn't have enough sociopolitical education to figure that out. The guy has been selling out the country for the interests of his private business since day 1.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
We can add a new one to the pile, a whistleblower reported a "secret server" which alledgedly has incrimminating evidence regarding shady deals with foreign governments....
I was going to ask the same thing, I don't want to assume. For example my dad hates "hippies" and activists. Finds them lazy, stupid, naive and that they should "get a job."
I was going to ask the same thing, I don't want to assume. For example my dad hates "hippies" and activists. Finds them lazy, stupid, naive and that they should "get a job."
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Yes, that's what it was, thank you. Motions vs. proceedings.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
@Travis The Dragon you seem like an intelligent guy and someone capable of forming your own opinions. You're a grown man who can think independently of your parents. Sure, many people do vote how their parents vote because it's all they know, but it's 2019 and we have access to so much more information than our parents or grandparents did when forming political opinions.
I have never understood the embedded hatred of a rival political party or of the people who vote for it. It's just another way of thinking and people vote for the party who they think will benefit them the most, so why despise people for following what they consider to be in their best interest?
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Too much Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage probably. They've been set in their ways for many years now.
I'm too lazy to do a lot of research and I sure wouldn't form opinions base on this place with all of the Trump bashing here.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
That's fair. Little if any right of center opinions on here. I get most of my conservative points of view from some friends. I'd be more than happy to send you some links. They are good conservative voices. They are neither for or against Trump, but they make good cases against the left. The thing is neither the left nor the right are 100% right on anything.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Thanks, but I'm not enough into it to really care. The only reason I posted on here was because I got caught up too much in my parents talking about it all the time. And I'm out of weed.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
If you are self-aware enough to realize that you don't invest enough time into the issues on which you speak, why not do something with that information? You can go two ways here: Either do invest more time into said issues, or refrain from brash speech on said issues.
Though I guess you would have a point if you were to say inadequate level of knowledge and unsound reasoning combined with unapologetic brashness and an appeal to emotion seems to be a winning gameplan these days. That is unfortunately the case. Not just in politics, but in political discourse among regular folks as well.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Huh? I read that 5 times and it makes absolutely no sense to me.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
That's the problem. Why isn't there more of a balance of left and right on here? It would be nice to see.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Wow, so much to unpack. @Travis The Dragon , as a fellow Minnesotan from the Twin Cities, let me say that I share some frustration about local politics, and the sanctuary city stance of Minneapolis in particular. And I generally lean to the left (well, maybe closer to a libertarian who believes in strong government regulation when the interests of the people are at cross purposes with the interests of a company).
That said, the issues with President Trump’s behavior are extremely well documented and in plain sight. Blatant, provable lies about everything large and small. Using the office to funnel money into his family’s businesses. Refusing to comply with presidential records laws and lawful subpoenas. Obstructing justice. Consistently making policy decisions that support Russian interests, often over American and NATO interests. The list goes on.
Let me start by saying that Bill Clinton deserved to be impeached. Based on the evidence presented, I believe he was clearly guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice, and he should have been removed from office for it. He could have admitted to his adultery in front of the grand jury and faced no criminal exposure because he had broken no laws at that point, but his arrogance pushed him to lie under oath and to try to hide the truth from investigators, and that’s where he crossed the line. The Democrats did the country a disservice by playing politics with Clinton’s impeachment instead of doing their patriotic duty.
By the same token, the Republicans are doing the country a disservice by continuing to defend an obviously corrupt public figure, spinning fictional stories and ignoring factual evidence to pretend that he’s not doing anything wrong. They know better, and they should be ashamed of themselves. Based on the information already available, it’s clear that Trump has obstructed justice, violated campaign finance laws, broken the emoluments clause of the constitution, and encouraged foreign powers to interfere in multiple U.S. elections. Any of these things on their own would be grounds for impeachment, so the sum total should be a clarion call for any patriots left in the congress to act.
If you want to review all of the President’s lies and misleading comments to date: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/
(Yes, it’s the Washington Post, but you can independently verify all of the comments if you want.)
If you haven’t yet read the Mueller Report (I recommend Volume II for the most egregious violations): https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
Campaign finance violations where the President was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/nyregion/michael-cohen-sentence.amp.html
One of the checks Trump wrote to pay back Michael Cohen for paying off the porn star he had sex with, violating campaign finance law in the process: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...mp-check-stormy-20190227-story.html?_amp=true
Yes, Trump sends reporters into a tizzy, but that’s because he’s the polar opposite of everything they stand for. They want to uncover facts and truth and inform the populace, while the President wants to lie and obfuscate and misinform the populace. And he does so brazenly and repeatedly. When a scandal pops up involving him, he immediately accuses his opponents of something similar so people who don’t pay close attention might think they’re talking about the other side instead. He calls all of the mainstream media outlets “fake news” so he can claim their negative coverage is a bunch of lies, but whenever they say something in his favor he can still say “even these people who are in the bag against me have to admit that I got this one right”. He can spin it either way so he always wins, and the only defense is to inform yourself so you can see through the bullshit. Unfortunately, many people don’t bother to do that.
Look into the facts for yourself and you’ll reach your own conclusion. No one will have to convince you of anything.
That said, the issues with President Trump’s behavior are extremely well documented and in plain sight. Blatant, provable lies about everything large and small. Using the office to funnel money into his family’s businesses. Refusing to comply with presidential records laws and lawful subpoenas. Obstructing justice. Consistently making policy decisions that support Russian interests, often over American and NATO interests. The list goes on.
Let me start by saying that Bill Clinton deserved to be impeached. Based on the evidence presented, I believe he was clearly guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice, and he should have been removed from office for it. He could have admitted to his adultery in front of the grand jury and faced no criminal exposure because he had broken no laws at that point, but his arrogance pushed him to lie under oath and to try to hide the truth from investigators, and that’s where he crossed the line. The Democrats did the country a disservice by playing politics with Clinton’s impeachment instead of doing their patriotic duty.
By the same token, the Republicans are doing the country a disservice by continuing to defend an obviously corrupt public figure, spinning fictional stories and ignoring factual evidence to pretend that he’s not doing anything wrong. They know better, and they should be ashamed of themselves. Based on the information already available, it’s clear that Trump has obstructed justice, violated campaign finance laws, broken the emoluments clause of the constitution, and encouraged foreign powers to interfere in multiple U.S. elections. Any of these things on their own would be grounds for impeachment, so the sum total should be a clarion call for any patriots left in the congress to act.
If you want to review all of the President’s lies and misleading comments to date: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/
(Yes, it’s the Washington Post, but you can independently verify all of the comments if you want.)
If you haven’t yet read the Mueller Report (I recommend Volume II for the most egregious violations): https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
Campaign finance violations where the President was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/nyregion/michael-cohen-sentence.amp.html
One of the checks Trump wrote to pay back Michael Cohen for paying off the porn star he had sex with, violating campaign finance law in the process: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...mp-check-stormy-20190227-story.html?_amp=true
Yes, Trump sends reporters into a tizzy, but that’s because he’s the polar opposite of everything they stand for. They want to uncover facts and truth and inform the populace, while the President wants to lie and obfuscate and misinform the populace. And he does so brazenly and repeatedly. When a scandal pops up involving him, he immediately accuses his opponents of something similar so people who don’t pay close attention might think they’re talking about the other side instead. He calls all of the mainstream media outlets “fake news” so he can claim their negative coverage is a bunch of lies, but whenever they say something in his favor he can still say “even these people who are in the bag against me have to admit that I got this one right”. He can spin it either way so he always wins, and the only defense is to inform yourself so you can see through the bullshit. Unfortunately, many people don’t bother to do that.
Look into the facts for yourself and you’ll reach your own conclusion. No one will have to convince you of anything.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
You can win debates, elections, and the admiration of people even if you are absolutely clueless about what you are talking about and don't even try to be logically sound as long as you do it in a loud and proud manner and manipulate people's sensitivities, insecurities and complexes well enough. This is especially true in recent years, not just in politics itself but in political conversations among regular people. So you'd have a point if you were to say "I don't need to inform myself" or "I don't need to refrain from talking in a confident manner if I'm not informed enough".
Is another way of putting it.
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Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Ah yes, I see what you mean now.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Yep. And how could I forget the most recent whistleblower complaint? https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf
Frankly you can go back at least 5 years in this thread to find similar discussions with the same people and Travis wasn't persuaded then. Those conversations had a similar trajectory too as what's going on right now. So I'm not sure if I really see the value in any of this.
That being said, I disagree heavily with "both sidesisms." You can definitely find things to disagree with from both parties and, as Onhell pointed out, nobody is completely right about everything. With that being said, Trump is uniquely unqualified and brings all of these scandals on himself. More often than not, he deserves the criticism that he gets. I'm not going to qualify every Trump criticism with some sort of praise of an example of a previous president doing something just as bad just to keep things "balanced." These things aren't balanced and Trump is easily one of the worst, if not the worst, modern presidents.
Well conservative posters should post here if they want to. They're going to be challenged, but that's the whole point of discourse. A lot of the more prominent conservative members (@cornfedhick @bearfan) aren't as active as they used to be.
That being said, I disagree heavily with "both sidesisms." You can definitely find things to disagree with from both parties and, as Onhell pointed out, nobody is completely right about everything. With that being said, Trump is uniquely unqualified and brings all of these scandals on himself. More often than not, he deserves the criticism that he gets. I'm not going to qualify every Trump criticism with some sort of praise of an example of a previous president doing something just as bad just to keep things "balanced." These things aren't balanced and Trump is easily one of the worst, if not the worst, modern presidents.