USA Politics

I wouldn't have put those first four in the ardent supporters camp, but there have been Trump supporters here. They tend not to visit this thread much.
 
Hillary was wrong to run federal business through a private, improperly secured email server. One hundred percent wrong. I can't speak 100% for most of those people that you mentioned, Forostar, but I am sure most of them are pretty appalled at Trump's presidency so far. Most of them.

There's a really good article about the Hack Gap here: https://www.vox.com/2018/10/23/18004478/hack-gap-explained

Does a good job explaining why there's more pressure on the left wing for these things than the right.
 
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I think the left has less room for error than the right in all countries where conservative-leaning voters make up for as least half of the voter base, not just in the States. Mistakes and weaknesses of left wing politicians are always more magnified than right wing ones.

I'd hypothesize that this is an inherent burden of progressive politics. To put it simply, it's a "If you're going to change things, make sure you get it right, or else leave us in our comfort zone" sentiment.
 
Looking through your previous posts in this thread you do appear to be strongly anti-Clinton, but not particularly pro-Trump, although not against him either. You definitely said at one point that you didn't want to vote for either.
 
Forostar said:
Collin, Cornfed, Bearfan, Travis come to mind. And someone called AlexS, I think.
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Collin never expressed support for Trump, but I'll give you that he posed a much stronger stance against Clinton than Trump.

Cornfed and bearfan clearly were not for Trump at any point. bearfan outwardly expressed support for Gary Johnson the entire way, and most certainly voted for Gary Johnson in the end. Cornfed is a libertarian as well and vocally called out Trump on multiple occasions, which leads me to believe that he also voted for Gary Johnson. You naming Cornfed and bearfan is very telling, because it shows that you're assuming all conservative and libertarian leaning people preferred Trump, which is prejudiced partisanism to the core.

Travis is Travis, his political views consist of an endless wave of conspiracy theories and it's silly to expect him to express consistent opinions.

I don't recall AlexS.
 
Great style to talk about other people this way. You guys can just ask them about anything (we even have a tagging option for this now) and if they won't answer it would be the nice thing to just leave them alone, methinks. Last time I checked, this was a Maiden forum and not a public tribunal.
 
I know quite a few Americans who voted for neither Trump nor Clinton, several of whom are members of this forum.

Personally, I think Hillary would have been a much better president than Mr. Trump, and I believe a significant portion of her baggage was either fabricated or exaggerated by 25+ years of attacks by right wing media & politicians. She would have been a steady hand on the tiller in turbulent times.
 
The Flash said:
I think the left has less room for error than the right in all countries where conservative-leaning voters make up for as least half of the voter base, not just in the States. Mistakes and weaknesses of left wing politicians are always more magnified than right wing ones.

I'd hypothesize that this is an inherent burden of progressive politics. To put it simply, it's a "If you're going to change things, make sure you get it right, or else leave us in our comfort zone" sentiment.
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That is definitely part of it. In the case of Trump many of the scandals and things he has been criticized for were known way before he was even a realistic candidate. People knew he was corrupt, a liar, sleazy, and incompetent but decided to vote for him anyway. If that wasn’t a problem then, why would it be now? The quality of life for the average American hasn’t really changed which reinforces the idea that it doesn’t matter who you put in there (it does matter). This is also great for Republicans since they run on a platform of keeping government out of your business. That’s why you see a lot of democrats running on healthcare. It’s probably the winning issue above all else because it has real consequences for common people.

Another part of it is that Republicans are better at messaging than Democrats. I’d wager most people don’t really understand the email scandal, but the right managed to simplify the issue and make it a constant line of attack. Democrats struggle to find a single issue to hammer Trump on. Instead they go after many different scandals and lines of attack, creating outrage fatigue in the process. The right tried the same thing with Obama and it didn’t work. Focusing on a couple issues with Hillary did work. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot to criticize Trump for. But to be really effective I think they need to focus 1 or 2 of his biggest flaws and double down on that.
 
Mosh said:
Democrats struggle to find a single issue to hammer Trump on. Instead they go after many different scandals and lines of attack, creating outrage fatigue in the process. The right tried the same thing with Obama and it didn’t work. Focusing on a couple issues with Hillary did work. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot to criticize Trump for. But to be really effective I think they need to focus 1 or 2 of his biggest flaws and double down on that.
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This is something I've criticized the Turkish opposition on, too. Erdoğan gives them so much material to work with, that they end up addressing all of them and can't focus on a significant issue that would resonate with the people. And Erdoğan is a master of using this to his advantage, he adeptly distracts the opposition with a ridiculous assertion or a factually incorrect statement.
 
Mosh said:
Another part of it is that Republicans are better at messaging than Democrats. I’d wager most people don’t really understand the email scandal, but the right managed to simplify the issue and make it a constant line of attack. Democrats struggle to find a single issue to hammer Trump on. Instead they go after many different scandals and lines of attack, creating outrage fatigue in the process. The right tried the same thing with Obama and it didn’t work. Focusing on a couple issues with Hillary did work. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot to criticize Trump for. But to be really effective I think they need to focus 1 or 2 of his biggest flaws and double down on that.
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Except that the Trumpists know how to play the "whatabout" game. As long as they play that card, people will go by the wisdom of, "the other ones are just as bad, but at least Trump does/says this or that." Honestly, I don't see a way currently that Trump would be damaged by anything.
 
I disagree, Per. Whataboutism only works with corporate Democrats. Trumpeters couldn't play that card with Bernie Sanders, calling him a commie was their only strategy against him.

The Sanders movement is gaining traction among liberals. It's the thing to watch out for when it comes to the future of American politics, imo.
 
Mosh said:
Another part of it is that Republicans are better at messaging than Democrats. I’d wager most people don’t really understand the email scandal, but the right managed to simplify the issue and make it a constant line of attack. Democrats struggle to find a single issue to hammer Trump on. Instead they go after many different scandals and lines of attack, creating outrage fatigue in the process. The right tried the same thing with Obama and it didn’t work. Focusing on a couple issues with Hillary did work. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot to criticize Trump for. But to be really effective I think they need to focus 1 or 2 of his biggest flaws and double down on that.
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It helps that the GOP has a corporate news ally in Fox News that pretty much trumpets their views and gives prime time hours to people like Hannity and Laura Ingraham, who are nothing but dishonest shills for the GOP.
 
The Flash said:
I disagree, Per. Whataboutism only works with corporate Democrats. Trumpeters couldn't play that card with Bernie Sanders, calling him a commie was their only strategy against him.
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That's a pretty strong strategy, though. They just need to pull Venezuela or North Korea out of the hat and say, "this is what Bernie wants for us!"
 
Perun said:
That's a pretty strong strategy, though. They just need to pull Venezuela or North Korea out of the hat and say, "this is what Bernie wants for us!"
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Don't think it's too strong of a strategy. It only convinces the people who already are convinced that Bernie is a commie.

A lot of workers went to Trump in the recent election because they bought his populist rhetoric targeted at trade deals, and bringing jobs back. They've been disappointed. Sanders' platform could absolutely attract those people.
 
The Flash said:
Don't think it's too strong of a strategy. It only convinces the people who already are convinced that Bernie is a commie.
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And that's enough. A rhetoric against Sanders does not have to be true, nor does it have to promise good things for the people. It needs to scare the electoral college in Wisconsin, that's all.

The Flash said:
A lot of workers went to Trump in the recent election because they bought his populist rhetoric targeted at trade deals, and bringing jobs back. They've been disappointed. Sanders' platform could absolutely attract those people.
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Some people haven's been disappointed, and those will be Trump's poster children, saying that if you vote for Trump, this will be you!

I'm not saying a Trump victory in 2020 is a given, but I'm pretty sure he has a big chance.
 
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