USA Politics

Zare said:
only U.S. police should be involved between U.S. citizens who support PKK and U.S. citizens who support Erdogan.
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For sure .. the only exceptions I can think of is if they were actually on embassy grounds or someone was an immediate threat to cause harm to an official (things that would fall under normal bodyguard/private security parameters)
 
Whether someone forces Erdogan to strip immunity from his security detail or not, the victims of the attack should sue.
 
Yeah but if it gets settled by taxpayers money then justice has not been exactly served...
 
That is generally how it works ... suing a foreign government as a private individual is very costly and very hard to win (or even get into court)
 
The Flash said:
"Foreign security service" was Erdoğan's security team and they were standing beside the people who welcomed Erdoğan's arrival. "U.S. citizens" were PKK/PYD symphatizers who brought PKK and PYD flags and posters of Kurdish leaders to protest Erdoğan's arrival. The two sets of groups were right next to each other.

A fight would obviously break out in that situation, which is why I said the police should've taken care of the situation before it happened.
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I bet they give a coloured version of the story in Turkish media but it looks like the Turkish security people were instructed from Erdogan's car to start beating the protesters. American politicians are very angry about this, some even want to throw out the Turkish ambassador.

Look at how these thugs are doing their work on American soil (especially from 2.30).
 
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Forostar said:
I bet they give a coloured version of the story in Turkish media but it looks like the Turkish security people were instructed from Erdogan's car to start beating the protesters.
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Hope this isn't meant to assert that I'm basing my opinions on what the Turkish media reports, because that has never been the case about anything I've ever said.

When PKK/PYD supporters start shouting "Turkey is a terrorist state", or "Erdoğan is a terrorist", obviously Turks are going to react, that's why the police should've taken precautions. What's problematic is that the security team got involved, they had no business in doing so, and it's not justified under any circumstances besides direct physical attack.
 
The Flash said:
When PKK/PYD supporters start shouting "Turkey is a terrorist state", or "Erdoğan is a terrorist", obviously Turks are going to react, that's why the police should've taken precautions. What's problematic is that the security team got involved, they had no business in doing so, and it's not justified under any circumstances besides direct physical attack.
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Ever heard about freedom of speech?
Btw. in my book, before Turkey acknowledges Armenian genocide, they are a terrorist state. I also consider Republic of Srpska a terrorist state.
 
The Flash said:
By that logic United States, United Kingdom, Russia, China etc. are all terrorist states.
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Could be. I would have to dig into a ton of legal historic documents to see how it's been handled. I don't believe that U.S. for instance is just turning a blind eye on what their ancestors did to native populations, like Russia, China, and Turkey do.
 
Zare said:
I don't believe that U.S. for instance is just turning a blind eye on what their ancestors did to native populations, like Russia, China, and Turkey do.
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Isn't that an arbitrary definition of state terrorism, though? Just behaviour towards native populations? What about what they do to other countries' populations?

Acts of terror have been committed by states, but I would refrain from using the term "terrorist state" so easily.
 
Apparently, there's something about Turkey specifically that automatically gives everyone else in the world the moral high ground.
 
Could be the way they just voted for a dictatorship, to be fair. And when it comes to intentional, high-level genocide, they're one of only a handful of countries in the modern era to try it and not own up to it in some ways. But that's not really terrorism. I don't know how better to define it, but yeah.
 
The Flash said:
Isn't that an arbitrary definition of state terrorism, though? Just behaviour towards native populations? What about what they do to other countries' populations?

Acts of terror have been committed by states, but I would refrain from using the term "terrorist state" so easily.
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Terrorism is a really loose term. If we agree upon a term that fits, I'll use it gladly. I prefer to use 'genocide' per se when it was done outside the borders. Like Austro-Hungarian army in Serbia.
The difference between terrorism and state terrorism though, is clear for me. Once financial or other resources have been backtraced from terrorist group to state actor(s).
 
Zare said:
I prefer to use 'genocide' per se when it was done outside the borders.
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I dunno, genocide has a pretty clear definition - the attempt to destroy a particular culture or race by another culture or race. Could be via murder (Jews in the Holocaust, Armenians vs Turks) or it could be through cultural assimilation techniques (Canadian and Australian residential schools come to mind). Doesn't matter where the borders are.
 
LooseCannon said:
Could be the way they just voted for a dictatorship, to be fair. And when it comes to intentional, high-level genocide, they're one of only a handful of countries in the modern era to try it and not own up to it in some ways. But that's not really terrorism. I don't know how better to define it, but yeah.
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Turkey is not the first country vote for dictatorship, and it certainly isn't the only country where a dictator received sweeping support across the nation.

The country's hands are dirty when it comes to the genocide, there's no denying it, but I do find it ridiculous that it gets brought up in issues that have nothing to do with it. "You committed a genocide and still deny it, so obviously you're wrong at everything."
 
It's a response to behaviour of today. Response to "national feelings hurt" kind of a crap.
 
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