Exactly. 
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Michael Moore's Morning After To-Do List (I like number five a lot):
1. Take over the Democratic Party and return it to the people. They have failed us miserably.
2. Fire all pundits, predictors, pollsters and anyone else in the media who had a narrative they wouldn't let go of and refused to listen to or acknowledge what was really going on. Those same bloviators will now tell us we must "heal the divide" and “come together.” They will pull more hooey like that out of their ass in the days to come. Turn them off.
3. Any Democratic member of Congress who didn’t wake up this morning ready to fight, resist and obstruct in the way Republicans did against President Obama every day for eight full years must step out of the way and let those of us who know the score lead the way in stopping the meanness and the madness that's about to begin.
4. Everyone must stop saying they are “stunned” and “shocked.” What you mean to say is that you were in a bubble and weren’t paying attention to your fellow Americans and their despair. YEARS of being neglected by both parties, the anger and the need for revenge against the system only grew. Along came a TV star they liked whose plan was to destroy both parties and tell them all “You're fired!” Trump’s victory is no surprise. He was never a joke. Treating him as one only strengthened him. He is both a creature and a creation of the media and the media will never own that.
5. You must say this sentence to everyone you meet today: “HILLARY CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE!” The MAJORITY of our fellow Americans preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Period. Fact. If you woke up this morning thinking you live in an effed-up country, you don’t. The majority of your fellow Americans wanted Hillary, not Trump. The only reason he’s president is because of an arcane, insane 18th-century idea called the Electoral College. Until we change that, we’ll continue to have presidents we didn’t elect and didn’t want. You live in a country where a majority of its citizens have said they believe there’s climate change, they believe women should be paid the same as men, they want a debt-free college education, they don’t want us invading countries, they want a raise in the minimum wage and they want a single-payer true universal health care system. None of that has changed. We live in a country where the majority agree with the “liberal” position. We just lack the liberal leadership to make that happen (see: #1 above). Let's try to get this all done by noon today. -- Michael Moore
1. Take over the Democratic Party and return it to the people. They have failed us miserably.
2. Fire all pundits, predictors, pollsters and anyone else in the media who had a narrative they wouldn't let go of and refused to listen to or acknowledge what was really going on. Those same bloviators will now tell us we must "heal the divide" and “come together.” They will pull more hooey like that out of their ass in the days to come. Turn them off.
3. Any Democratic member of Congress who didn’t wake up this morning ready to fight, resist and obstruct in the way Republicans did against President Obama every day for eight full years must step out of the way and let those of us who know the score lead the way in stopping the meanness and the madness that's about to begin.
4. Everyone must stop saying they are “stunned” and “shocked.” What you mean to say is that you were in a bubble and weren’t paying attention to your fellow Americans and their despair. YEARS of being neglected by both parties, the anger and the need for revenge against the system only grew. Along came a TV star they liked whose plan was to destroy both parties and tell them all “You're fired!” Trump’s victory is no surprise. He was never a joke. Treating him as one only strengthened him. He is both a creature and a creation of the media and the media will never own that.
5. You must say this sentence to everyone you meet today: “HILLARY CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE!” The MAJORITY of our fellow Americans preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Period. Fact. If you woke up this morning thinking you live in an effed-up country, you don’t. The majority of your fellow Americans wanted Hillary, not Trump. The only reason he’s president is because of an arcane, insane 18th-century idea called the Electoral College. Until we change that, we’ll continue to have presidents we didn’t elect and didn’t want. You live in a country where a majority of its citizens have said they believe there’s climate change, they believe women should be paid the same as men, they want a debt-free college education, they don’t want us invading countries, they want a raise in the minimum wage and they want a single-payer true universal health care system. None of that has changed. We live in a country where the majority agree with the “liberal” position. We just lack the liberal leadership to make that happen (see: #1 above). Let's try to get this all done by noon today. -- Michael Moore
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
What strikes me is the large number of people that have not voted. That goes for Democrats as well. They risked giving Clinton not enough votes. They made it harder for her to win. Actually, they made Clinton lose.
I feel many people keep focusing on the ideal or theoretical situation that more than 2 people have a chance to win. Yes, this was or seemed to be the case when Sanders was still around, or in theory when some other person e.g. from another party still had a big chance. Of course, one looks further than Clinton and Trump in that phase.
But election day was phase B. Plan B. Just two left. There was a binary choice on November the 8th.
I acknowledge that things went wrong. But to punish the country by saying "fuck you, I'm not voting for Clinton even if her politics are (way!) less terrible".... I don't get that. I don't get the argument. There is no good argument. At least, I still haven't heard it. There's sentiment though. If only people had listened to Sanders.... When he was out of the race, he urged everyone to vote for Clinton to reach the main goal: No Trump.
The Dems take a lot of beating for ignoring this sentiment, Before, during and now also after this election.
But how exactly could they have done things in a better way? I don't think the sentiment of fellow Americans and their despair/anger can be addressed that well by Dems. Easier said than done. I think that the Dems have leftish/democratic principles in their way when they need to convince people who are more focused on their own well being rather than being worried over the environment/nature or rights for minorities.
I feel many people keep focusing on the ideal or theoretical situation that more than 2 people have a chance to win. Yes, this was or seemed to be the case when Sanders was still around, or in theory when some other person e.g. from another party still had a big chance. Of course, one looks further than Clinton and Trump in that phase.
But election day was phase B. Plan B. Just two left. There was a binary choice on November the 8th.
I acknowledge that things went wrong. But to punish the country by saying "fuck you, I'm not voting for Clinton even if her politics are (way!) less terrible".... I don't get that. I don't get the argument. There is no good argument. At least, I still haven't heard it. There's sentiment though. If only people had listened to Sanders.... When he was out of the race, he urged everyone to vote for Clinton to reach the main goal: No Trump.
The Dems take a lot of beating for ignoring this sentiment, Before, during and now also after this election.
But how exactly could they have done things in a better way? I don't think the sentiment of fellow Americans and their despair/anger can be addressed that well by Dems. Easier said than done. I think that the Dems have leftish/democratic principles in their way when they need to convince people who are more focused on their own well being rather than being worried over the environment/nature or rights for minorities.
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Democrats suck with voter turnout big time. It has costed them the house in the past and it cost them the presidency this time. I don't really blame Bernie supporters, it seems that the Bernie or Busters were a minority, it helped that Bernie actively campaigned for Hillary instead of disappearing.
Republicans seem to better understand that even if they don't like the presidential nominee, it's better to still vote because they are still going to be more likely to get the things they want than if it comes down to the other guy (or gal, in this case).
I don't think it would've been that hard to persuade the working class white demographic of the country. Basic policy like bringing jobs back to the country that Trump pushed really hard on. These don't step on leftish principles and are probably an OK compromise (which is needed anyway if you have a split congress, which is what Hillary was looking at even if she did win). Easier said than done maybe, but it would be more of an effort than completely ignoring that demographic. Bernie isn't a globalist either and could've handled that. Which brings me to this post I forgot to respond to:
I think the communist slur is slowly starting to lose its luster. The Republicans ran hard against Obama on that for 8 years and it didn't work. When you have a demographic that feels the government isn't working for them, it seems like they're willing to try just about anything else, see Donald Trump.
Republicans seem to better understand that even if they don't like the presidential nominee, it's better to still vote because they are still going to be more likely to get the things they want than if it comes down to the other guy (or gal, in this case).
I don't think it would've been that hard to persuade the working class white demographic of the country. Basic policy like bringing jobs back to the country that Trump pushed really hard on. These don't step on leftish principles and are probably an OK compromise (which is needed anyway if you have a split congress, which is what Hillary was looking at even if she did win). Easier said than done maybe, but it would be more of an effort than completely ignoring that demographic. Bernie isn't a globalist either and could've handled that. Which brings me to this post I forgot to respond to:
A week ago I would've agreed with this, but I think Trump's victory sent a strong message for populism and antiestablishment. Have a guy with that same message minus the xenophobia and racism and I could easily see Trump's silent majority going the other way. You might even bring over more never Trumpers. Basically see @Cornfed Hick 's post.
I think the communist slur is slowly starting to lose its luster. The Republicans ran hard against Obama on that for 8 years and it didn't work. When you have a demographic that feels the government isn't working for them, it seems like they're willing to try just about anything else, see Donald Trump.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Hold on. These jobs right. These include a lot of old industry jobs. The ones that are not good for the environment. They do step on principles Reps (or at least Trump with his hoax climate change) care less about that Dems. See the difference? How to get the votes from people who want to have their polluting coal mine industry job back? Giving those kind of jobs back, that's against certain principles some people have and others don't have.
Sanders on the importance of climate change.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/sanders-climate-change-is-today-s-top-issue-681168963733
EDIT:
Check this out: That should explain it well enough. See the vid as well.
https://news.vice.com/article/berni...el-industry-in-new-climate-change-action-plan
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Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
I don't give a fuck how "spot on" this is. Bottom line is this. People "hated" Hillary because of Benghazi, something she actually apologized for and said she regretted. People "hated Hillary, because she called Trump supporters a "basket of deplorable," and because of a email scandal of which MANY republicans, among them Collin Powell and Condi Rice, are also guilty, but they were NEVER in the media for it, much less investigated by the FBI. Yet Trump can call an entire people rapists and drug dealers, call an entire religion terrorists, say that if Ivanka wasn't her daughter he'd date her (fucking gross), when confronted with his lies and hypocrisy instead of apologizing he says, "wrong! wrong! your lying! fucking media is against me!" He has not one but TWO trials pending, one for FRAUD for his Trump University and one for RAPE of a thirteen year old girl, gets caught on tape saying he grabs women by the pussy and is a fucking sexist...
EVEN WITH ALL OF THAT.... hispanics, women, MUSLIMS and working class whites vote for a billionaire, sexist, racist, xenophobic, criminal who didn't even get the popular vote (not by much, but he did lose it). But it's the left that's out of touch?! Give me a fucking break, America is an abused woman that just went back to it's drunk felon husband. THAT is why I'm leaving. major news sources like the LA Times, USA TODAY, Washington post, etc, have reported KKK rallies and parades nationwide, hate crimes and murders and this idiot hasn't even taken office. I saw a MEME with an empty street and it said, "republicans rioting after Obama won." I'm sorry people with no memory, but Obama won with 69% of popular vote in 08 and 65% in 12. Trump LOST the popular vote 47.9 to 47.7, or some shit like that.
It just makes no sense. This country got what it deserved. A candidate that is a clear reflection of their ignorance, hate and stupidity.
It's not the left's fault or the right's fault. Hate is wrong, period. I don't support the democrats rioting either, that solves nothing. I know plenty of conservatives that aren't racists or sexists. Like the guy in the video says, not everyone who voted for trump was one, but the fact that they're willing to put up with a fucking lunatic just because they are sick of the supposed establishment shows that they are stupid.
"But onhell, he's not the establishment, he's not a professional polititian, he's an outsider that even the republicans hate." Oh shut up. He's a billionaire that skirts the law like all the other fucking 1 percenters. He is the EMBODIMENT of the establishment, someone who thinks laws don't apply to him and he can do what he wants. He tells poor people he is one of them and will fight the big companies while wearing a 4K dollar suit and IS a company or at the least a BRAND.
Ugh, fuck this i'm just ranting.
EVEN WITH ALL OF THAT.... hispanics, women, MUSLIMS and working class whites vote for a billionaire, sexist, racist, xenophobic, criminal who didn't even get the popular vote (not by much, but he did lose it). But it's the left that's out of touch?! Give me a fucking break, America is an abused woman that just went back to it's drunk felon husband. THAT is why I'm leaving. major news sources like the LA Times, USA TODAY, Washington post, etc, have reported KKK rallies and parades nationwide, hate crimes and murders and this idiot hasn't even taken office. I saw a MEME with an empty street and it said, "republicans rioting after Obama won." I'm sorry people with no memory, but Obama won with 69% of popular vote in 08 and 65% in 12. Trump LOST the popular vote 47.9 to 47.7, or some shit like that.
It just makes no sense. This country got what it deserved. A candidate that is a clear reflection of their ignorance, hate and stupidity.
It's not the left's fault or the right's fault. Hate is wrong, period. I don't support the democrats rioting either, that solves nothing. I know plenty of conservatives that aren't racists or sexists. Like the guy in the video says, not everyone who voted for trump was one, but the fact that they're willing to put up with a fucking lunatic just because they are sick of the supposed establishment shows that they are stupid.
"But onhell, he's not the establishment, he's not a professional polititian, he's an outsider that even the republicans hate." Oh shut up. He's a billionaire that skirts the law like all the other fucking 1 percenters. He is the EMBODIMENT of the establishment, someone who thinks laws don't apply to him and he can do what he wants. He tells poor people he is one of them and will fight the big companies while wearing a 4K dollar suit and IS a company or at the least a BRAND.
Ugh, fuck this i'm just ranting.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Michael Moore is a hypocrite. His all shtick was that the establishment was fucking the ordinary people, he was highly critical of all Wall Street loving politicians like Hillary for years, then he completely flip-flopped and started arguing how Hillary "changed" and was a great candidate. Utter BS.
Feel sorry for yourself then, because Obama got %53 in 08 and %51 in 12. 69 and 65 are the number of millions of votes he received, not the percentage.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Why would I feel sorry for myself? That makes no sense. I feel sorry for you because you are wrong as well. My point still stand that he got considerable more votes. But the numbers I quoted are NOT as you say the million of votes. They are however the percent of ELECTORAL votes he received.
I wrote that last night in a flurry of emotion and going off of memory. I recommend when correcting someone you double check your numbers...
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Yeah, no.
Barack Obama received 69,498,516 votes in 2008. 69 million.
Barack Obama received 65,915,795 votes in 2012. 65 million.
Barack Obama received %67 of the electoral vote in 2008.
Barack Obama received %61 of the electoral vote in 2012.
My numbers are correct, yours are not. You also said "%69 of the popular vote" and are now saying "they were the percent of electoral votes". Paradigm shift much? You could just leave it at "I was going off memory with the numbers, my points still stand" but god forbid we admit to have made a mistake, right?
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
No, you accused me of getting my numbers wrong and mockingly suggested that I "should double check my numbers before correcting someone". There was no need for that.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Easy to miss your point when you word it wrongly, no?
I made no comment on your analysis, mind you. I just corrected you.
Flash - come on.