He still begs the question quite a lot.
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
That is because he's trying to make a political point, it seems... Now that I'm not elbow deep in regedit I can articulate a bit more about what I think.
First, no complaints about the idea of inviting controversial speakers. Do it from all spectrums, but make sure if you're going to include a David Duke or a Fred Phelps that you are aware of how the public is going to appreciate that.
But man, the idea of a "safe space" being something that enforces a particular ideology is a huge strawman argument. Safe spaces are good when used for their original purpose. So are trigger warnings, which are designed to allow adults to decide what media/classes/lectures to take in.
First, no complaints about the idea of inviting controversial speakers. Do it from all spectrums, but make sure if you're going to include a David Duke or a Fred Phelps that you are aware of how the public is going to appreciate that.
But man, the idea of a "safe space" being something that enforces a particular ideology is a huge strawman argument. Safe spaces are good when used for their original purpose. So are trigger warnings, which are designed to allow adults to decide what media/classes/lectures to take in.
Which is not what safe spaces are. They are areas where minorities can go to know someone there won't treat them with disrespect. The only two safe space programs I'm aware of for university campuses provide areas for lgbt people and for victims of sexual assault to not be harassed. Safe spaces are not where neo liberals go to ignore the real world.
You forgot Condi Rice who got dis-invited from Rutgers[/QUOTE]
That was wrong, I said so then, I'll say it now.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
You can still have that safe space, it is called your house/dorm/whatever ... not an area of campus that is designed for the benefit of any and all students.
.. and to quote again
"
Civility and mutual respect are vital to all of us, and freedom of expression does not mean the freedom to harass or threaten others. You will find that we expect members of our community to be engaged in rigorous debate, discussion, and even disagreement. At times this may challenge you and even cause discomfort.
"
All of which seems pretty critical given the University is best known for its Law School/Public Policy School
Beyond that, it seems like a pretty good education on how to live life in the "real world"
Most dorms on campus are not safe in any way. There's an insane amount of sexual assault, violence, theft, and more in those areas. Lots of people do offer their own homes/apartments etc as safe spaces. In my university, quite a few professors offered their offices as well. But lots of universities also offer other spaces where speech is limited. Does the campus have a chapel, for example? If so, I can guarantee you they will not allow a few hundred people to flood the chapel and start chanting "Down with Jesus, down with Jesus" during a christening.
That's also not how safe spaces work when properly set up, but strawmen are super awesome.
Safe spaces do not stop people from having their views and opinions challenged. They provide areas for people with certain sensibilities to feel safe to express their opinion or just to feel safe.
How can you do that without a space that you can make safe? Freedom of association is an equal freedom to that of speech, and when the university provides safe areas (be them permanent or temporary for assignment), they're respecting the freedom of association that those people exercise.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
You do it by saying The "Whatever" Club is meeting in Room 123 in Something Hall at 3PM on Fridays ... you do not do it by adding "only certain people are allowed in/certain people are excluded" based on their gender, sexual orientation, color, ethnicity, etc. If they want to exclude a certain person because they actually broke some bylaw of the club .. sure, that is different.
Now I'm fine with that, but if you say, the LGBT club is meeting, for LGBT people and allies, and someone from the campus community shows up who is known to dislike gay people, can they not turn that person away using their freedom of association?
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Guy comes in , if he participates in the discussion in a calm and rational way... no problem at all
Guy comes in and is a major disruption by his actions .. then yeah, he could/should be tossed out
If they want freedom of association, you have it ... but generally not in a public forum, which an on campus club is .. open to all students who wish to participate . Even more to the point at a public university
The problem is that even by being calm and rational, with certain points of view, we can cause significant mental stress to people who have certain issues. Like if you have PTSD, for example, even a casual discussion of what caused that can hurt significantly.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Reverse your statement .... group of students that want to promote the removal of gay marriage ... can they exclude gays because for whatever reason it causes them mental stress or discomfort
If you are arguing certain points of view .. then we are back to safe spaces being designed to being some kind of echo chamber that accepts no opposing viewpoints
You are also giving power to small groups to exclude people really for whatever reason ... including sexual orientation, race, gender, you name it in a facility and group funded by the student community. Which when you remove the extreme cases of "A Nazi walks into a group" or whatever, you end with the more common case of "we do not like that person because of some reason ... toss them out"
If you are arguing certain points of view .. then we are back to safe spaces being designed to being some kind of echo chamber that accepts no opposing viewpoints
You are also giving power to small groups to exclude people really for whatever reason ... including sexual orientation, race, gender, you name it in a facility and group funded by the student community. Which when you remove the extreme cases of "A Nazi walks into a group" or whatever, you end with the more common case of "we do not like that person because of some reason ... toss them out"