USA Politics

bearfan said:
  • The American Freedom Defense Initiative event had offered a $10,000 prize for the best caricature of the prophet; local residents had expressed their concerns about the event but organizers said they were exercising free speech
Click to expand...

Let me use my freedom of speech to state that this is obviously a bunch of morons. It doesn't warrant an attentate on them, but they are still morons.

No tears for the attackers, of course.
 
Yeah, nothing I would care to participate in .. mainly because I just do not care one way or another ... but, if that is what people want to do with their time, fine with me
 
One of the sucks from this is that the right wing anti-Islamic paranoids are going to use this as a reason to scream even louder. People like Pam Gellar are one of ISIS's #1 weapons for proving to Muslims that Americans are just as bad as they want Muslims to think they are.
 
I see an excellent opportunity to draw these guys out in the open ... more drawing contests. Just like bait car
 
My level of sympathy ... or even caring if they live or die ... for people that plan on killing people for drawings is less than zero. Fuck 'em
 
My comment was a bit of a joke .. using these like they use bait cars to trap car thieves. Not that it would ever happen, but if they did make these traps, I would assume they would clear out innocents from the area,
 
Fair point. However, your joke and this little discussion makes me think of a more serious dilemma.

In any country that claims to have freedom of speech, that freedom must involve at least some level of protection from the authorities - i.e. for those who speak. If not, speaking controversial opinions would be difficult because one could be threatened.

But how far should one expect to be allowed to go? Outright lies? Inflammatory speech, which starts riots (where the speaker does not take part in riots, but is fully aware that they will occur)? Or insulting speech towards e.g. all people of a certain ethnicity or religion, or all with a specific disease? It is my understanding that the US differs from most European countries in just how far you can go, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of people here on Maidenfans.
 
The key to free speech in the US is geared towards government and a restriction on them limiting it with few exceptions (classified info, treason in time of war, etc .. very narrow limits)

It does not really apply that citizen A needs to allow citizen B to say whatever they want ... up to the point of doing something criminal. If I do not like what someone says, I can walk away, should them down (though I always thought that was an asshole move), etc. Shooting them, clearly not a legal option.

I think all your examples should be allowable without interference from government, though there could be other consequences (shunning for example). Really what is the option, locking up someone for expressing an opinion?
 
LooseCannon said:
that Americans are just as bad as they want Muslims to think they are.
Click to expand...

Or to turn that around, Muslims showing up to commit murder because a of a drawing shows Muslims to be as bad as XXXXXXX thinks they are. When I was recently in Paris, the massive amount of cops and army walking around with machine guns where not there targeted at Americans.
 
bearfan said:
The key to free speech in the US is geared towards government and a restriction on them limiting it with few exceptions (classified info, treason in time of war, etc .. very narrow limits)

It does not really apply that citizen A needs to allow citizen B to say whatever they want ... up to the point of doing something criminal. If I do not like what someone says, I can walk away, should them down (though I always thought that was an asshole move), etc. Shooting them, clearly not a legal option.

I think all your examples should be allowable without interference from government, though there could be other consequences (shunning for example). Really what is the option, locking up someone for expressing an opinion?
Click to expand...

No, I would certainly not advocate punishment for voicing opinions, no matter how moronic they might be. In that respect, I'm more in line with the US mainstream.
 
Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
No, I would certainly not advocate punishment for voicing opinions, no matter how moronic they might be. In that respect, I'm more in line with the US mainstream.
Click to expand...
I think that is the answer ... saying speech caused some violent answer seems along the same lines as "the girl was wearing slutty clothing, she deserved to be raped" to me
 
Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
Fair point. However, your joke and this little discussion makes me think of a more serious dilemma.

In any country that claims to have freedom of speech, that freedom must involve at least some level of protection from the authorities - i.e. for those who speak. If not, speaking controversial opinions would be difficult because one could be threatened.

But how far should one expect to be allowed to go? Outright lies? Inflammatory speech, which starts riots (where the speaker does not take part in riots, but is fully aware that they will occur)? Or insulting speech towards e.g. all people of a certain ethnicity or religion, or all with a specific disease? It is my understanding that the US differs from most European countries in just how far you can go, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of people here on Maidenfans.
Click to expand...
I fully support what you say and I have advocated so in the past.
bearfan said:
It does not really apply that citizen A needs to allow citizen B to say whatever they want ... up to the point of doing something criminal. If I do not like what someone says, I can walk away, should them down (though I always thought that was an asshole move), etc. Shooting them, clearly not a legal option.?
Click to expand...
Unless you're police, you can fuck around as much as you like, when no one films it. Something is not working well, when police can be "not criminal" and behave racist towards black people.

The problem is that the impact of discrimination and racism is underestimated. It causes most trouble in the USA. People break laws because they are continuously discriminated, even if that is "not criminal".

When you can't get a job because of your colour, and get harassed on the streets, what is freedom of speech worth? What is it worth, when speech by a white cop is more important that speech of black youth? The use of US laws bothers me. And such a huge mass seems so ignorant about it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top