Well, perhaps there is a problem where cops are shooting when they shouldn't be, all around, and that's something that should be looking at. Cops aren't soldiers, and they shouldn't be killing unless absolutely necessary.
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
I wonder what the statistics show for US crime vs other areas. Now, that being said, guns are way more prevalent in the USA than in any other country, so maybe there is more justification there. Hard to say. Like I said, maybe.
I would argue that it is the police officer's duty to sustain non-life threatening injuries in order to protect a citizen. Criminals are citizens, and as such, deserve the protection of the police.
I would argue that it is the police officer's duty to sustain non-life threatening injuries in order to protect a citizen. Criminals are citizens, and as such, deserve the protection of the police.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I disagree with your second line, if there is a weapon .. gun, knife, in some cases just a fist ... how do you expect someone to determine in a split second "he'll only injure me, not kill me" so I should take 'x' blows before resorting to more force? It is not like there is a life counter, like in a video game, above this guys head. Add to that, being injured could eliminate any chance to respond in case threat of injury turns into threat of death.
I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am all for cameras on cops. Though I did hear two good arguments to limit that 1) Police do routine service, for example taking a burglary report or more dire things like a death notice for traffic accidents, etc, so the cameras should be allowed to be turned off (with mutual consent) if they enter a home to do things like that. Otherwise, it is public record and anyone can see it.
2) Some police worry it will be used against them for minor things like "why did you give a warning instead of a ticket on a traffic stop/J-walking/other minor stuff" and take away their ability to use common sense. For that reason, I think they should not be able to be reviewed unless there is an injury/death, a complaint, or something goes to trial.
With some basic limitations like that, cameras are the way to go.
I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am all for cameras on cops. Though I did hear two good arguments to limit that 1) Police do routine service, for example taking a burglary report or more dire things like a death notice for traffic accidents, etc, so the cameras should be allowed to be turned off (with mutual consent) if they enter a home to do things like that. Otherwise, it is public record and anyone can see it.
2) Some police worry it will be used against them for minor things like "why did you give a warning instead of a ticket on a traffic stop/J-walking/other minor stuff" and take away their ability to use common sense. For that reason, I think they should not be able to be reviewed unless there is an injury/death, a complaint, or something goes to trial.
With some basic limitations like that, cameras are the way to go.
It doesn't sound like anyone is trying very hard to cover this, police or media. After all, not like they're killing white witnesses.
The murdering of witnesses by "vigilantes" (I can't come up for a better word for them) is just as atrocious and detrimental to society as the murdering of unarmed black men by police.
The murdering of witnesses by "vigilantes" (I can't come up for a better word for them) is just as atrocious and detrimental to society as the murdering of unarmed black men by police.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I was joking a bit .. but the "protests" over the two cases in the news have caused more deaths than what they are protesting, not to mention tons of property damage, ruining lives of people who did no one any harm, and stupid crap like blocking roads that people use to go to work, visit family, keep appointments etc.
I fully support the right to protest, but this is way out of hand and for fear of bad press, the police are really doing nothing to stop it.
I fully support the right to protest, but this is way out of hand and for fear of bad press, the police are really doing nothing to stop it.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Any thoughts on the Senate's report on the CIA's Detention & Interrogation Program?
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf
...other than the fact that this type of interrogation doesn't work.
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf
...other than the fact that this type of interrogation doesn't work.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
I will do.
The coverage (here in the UK), or the representation of how it's being covered in the US, seems to be focused on its release (i.e. whether it should've been released & the timing of the release), rather than its conclusions.
I don't think it does anything but confirm what we already knew, that the USA systematically tortured some people in their grasp. It also tells us that the true intelligence breakthroughs came from non "enhanced" interrogation methods - torturing people doesn't work, but talking with them, building trust and report, does.
Aside from the fact that it is galling that the US government did things that they prosecuted Japanese and Nazis for, it's really stuff we already knew.
Aside from the fact that it is galling that the US government did things that they prosecuted Japanese and Nazis for, it's really stuff we already knew.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Minority report .. which is also partisan of course ... lists several cases where valuable info was gathered using these methods
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy3.pdf
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy3.pdf
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I am not sure if your downplaying the publication of the report, but this would not exactly be my first reaction. The details are brutal.
Great quote by the determined Feinstein, who was opposed by a desperate campaign trying to stop publication:
"History will judge us by our commitment to a just society governed by law and the willingness to face an ugly truth and say never again."
CIA interrogations report sparks prosecution calls
Last edited:
Sickening as it is, there are a few good reasons not to prosecute.
First off, Obama's DOJ has already said it would be almost impossible to get convictions. I don't see the next president's DOJ changing their tune.
Second, it's old enough that it's going to seem like most Americans that we're dragging a dead horse through the mud. Though controversial, it's the same reason Ford was right to pardon Nixon. Obama is right; it's time to move on.
Third, presidents are loathe to prosecute their predecessors for anything, because it's a bad precedent. Fact is, a POTUS needs to be able to make decisions - hard and ugly ones - without worrying about jail. It's been an unwritten code among presidents for years, and it's a good idea.
Finally, a Dem POTUS going after Repubs won't fly. Obama won't risk it. About the most that will happen: if the next POTUS is Republican, he could call for another investigation to pacify the press.
Yep. Sad truth: we could put the Nazis on trial because we won, so we did. There's no superpower who can force us into prosecuting our own, so it won't happen, no matter how loud anyone cries about it.
First off, Obama's DOJ has already said it would be almost impossible to get convictions. I don't see the next president's DOJ changing their tune.
Second, it's old enough that it's going to seem like most Americans that we're dragging a dead horse through the mud. Though controversial, it's the same reason Ford was right to pardon Nixon. Obama is right; it's time to move on.
Third, presidents are loathe to prosecute their predecessors for anything, because it's a bad precedent. Fact is, a POTUS needs to be able to make decisions - hard and ugly ones - without worrying about jail. It's been an unwritten code among presidents for years, and it's a good idea.
Finally, a Dem POTUS going after Repubs won't fly. Obama won't risk it. About the most that will happen: if the next POTUS is Republican, he could call for another investigation to pacify the press.
Yep. Sad truth: we could put the Nazis on trial because we won, so we did. There's no superpower who can force us into prosecuting our own, so it won't happen, no matter how loud anyone cries about it.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
I also think it's best to concentrate efforts on transparency and mechanisms that won't allow these tortures to happen again.
I think we can all agree with the above.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
DOJ won't reopen torture probe after CIA report
The Justice Department is not reopening an investigation into the CIA’s treatment of suspected terrorist detainees despite a Senate panel’s damning report on their practices.
Investigators have reviewed the Intelligence Committee’s report and “did not find any new information that they had not previously considered in reaching their determination” to dismiss the previous investigations, the Justice Department said.
The decision not to pursue additional legal action will upset some civil liberties advocates who have called for new “accountability” measures to pursue officials involved with the program and prevent the CIA from ever conducting similar acts again.
The Justice Department had previously launched investigations into the treatment of detainees, which the Senate panel on Tuesday said sometimes amounted to torture.
A 2009 review under the authority of Attorney General Eric Holder led to two criminal investigations but no prosecutions because “the admissible evidence would not be sufficient to obtain and sustain convictions beyond a reasonable doubt," the department said.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/226603-justice-department-wont-reopen-torture-probes
The Justice Department is not reopening an investigation into the CIA’s treatment of suspected terrorist detainees despite a Senate panel’s damning report on their practices.
Investigators have reviewed the Intelligence Committee’s report and “did not find any new information that they had not previously considered in reaching their determination” to dismiss the previous investigations, the Justice Department said.
The decision not to pursue additional legal action will upset some civil liberties advocates who have called for new “accountability” measures to pursue officials involved with the program and prevent the CIA from ever conducting similar acts again.
The Justice Department had previously launched investigations into the treatment of detainees, which the Senate panel on Tuesday said sometimes amounted to torture.
A 2009 review under the authority of Attorney General Eric Holder led to two criminal investigations but no prosecutions because “the admissible evidence would not be sufficient to obtain and sustain convictions beyond a reasonable doubt," the department said.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/226603-justice-department-wont-reopen-torture-probes
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
... and the 2014 elections are over
Republican Martha McSally wins last House race of 2014
The race for Gabrielle Giffords’ former Ariz. seat had gone to a recount.
Republican Martha McSally has prevailed in Arizona’s 2nd Congressional District over Democratic Rep. Ron Barber following a recount after initial vote totals showed McSally ahead by fewer than 200 votes.
Results unveiled Wednesday by Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Katherine Cooper — more than six weeks after the Nov. 4 election — showed McSally ahead by 167 votes. McSally, a retired Air Force officer and the first female to fly in combat, previously led the vote count by 161 votes, but a mandatory recount followed because the margin was not wide enough.
“There’s no getting around that this was an incredibly close and hard-fought race,” McSally said in a statement after officially being declared the winner. “After what’s been a long campaign season, it’s time to come together and heal our community. That’s why my focus will be on what unites us, not what divides us, such as providing better economic opportunity for our families and ensuring our country and community are kept safe.”
McSally’s win adds to the GOP’s historic 2014 gains in the House. When the new Congress convenes in January, Republicans will control 247 House seats, compared to 188 for Democrats.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/martha-mcsally-arizona-second-113640.html#ixzz3MBGJDznD
Republican Martha McSally wins last House race of 2014
The race for Gabrielle Giffords’ former Ariz. seat had gone to a recount.
Republican Martha McSally has prevailed in Arizona’s 2nd Congressional District over Democratic Rep. Ron Barber following a recount after initial vote totals showed McSally ahead by fewer than 200 votes.
Results unveiled Wednesday by Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Katherine Cooper — more than six weeks after the Nov. 4 election — showed McSally ahead by 167 votes. McSally, a retired Air Force officer and the first female to fly in combat, previously led the vote count by 161 votes, but a mandatory recount followed because the margin was not wide enough.
“There’s no getting around that this was an incredibly close and hard-fought race,” McSally said in a statement after officially being declared the winner. “After what’s been a long campaign season, it’s time to come together and heal our community. That’s why my focus will be on what unites us, not what divides us, such as providing better economic opportunity for our families and ensuring our country and community are kept safe.”
McSally’s win adds to the GOP’s historic 2014 gains in the House. When the new Congress convenes in January, Republicans will control 247 House seats, compared to 188 for Democrats.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/martha-mcsally-arizona-second-113640.html#ixzz3MBGJDznD
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30516740
Obama has announced plans to re-open diplomatic ties with Cuba. Rubio is pissed, and Obama doesn't give a fuck. Problem is that today's Cuba is less concerned with exporting the Communist revolution and more concerned with importing Canadian and European tourists. The best way to kill Cuban Communism is to unleash the powerful force of American capitalism upon it.
Obama has announced plans to re-open diplomatic ties with Cuba. Rubio is pissed, and Obama doesn't give a fuck. Problem is that today's Cuba is less concerned with exporting the Communist revolution and more concerned with importing Canadian and European tourists. The best way to kill Cuban Communism is to unleash the powerful force of American capitalism upon it.