USA Politics

There is also the addition of childbirth that many people simply don't want to go through to begin with, let alone for a child they don't actually want. There is also already so many children in need of adoption, why throw more into that?
 
I think abortions should be legal with some restrictions (mainly no real late term ones unless the life of the mother is at stake)

With that said, it is a shame that they have to happen because they are very easily prevented and really anyone who gets pregnant who does not want to who has not had contraception fail or the sex being non consensual is a bit of a moron and they should be instructed on how to prevent that from happening in the future. Given the vast options of contraception and then the plan B pill if that is forgotten, there is not much of an excuse.

Beyond that at least one form of contraception should be used (condoms) for people who are not overly familiar with one another for plenty of other good reasons beyond pregnancies.
 
Ya, I can see not wanting to go through actual childbirth and all. Plus, if the cost of abortion is less than going through childbirth and adoption is less, I can understand it from a financial point. I do agree with Bearfan as well though about using contraception. It's so simple to use it and there are enough options available out there.
 
bearfan said:
With that said, it is a shame that they have to happen because they are very easily prevented and really anyone who gets pregnant who does not want to who has not had contraception fail or the sex being non consensual is a bit of a moron and they should be instructed on how to prevent that from happening in the future. Given the vast options of contraception and then the plan B pill if that is forgotten, there is not much of an excuse.
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I think this brings up the issue of sex education. Rather than telling kids to wait until marriage, more school should teach safe sex. That way they will at least know to use contraception.
 
Mosh said:
I think this brings up the issue of sex education. Rather than telling kids to wait until marriage, more school should teach safe sex. That way they will at least know to use contraception.
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No doubt about it. But if someone comes in needing an abortion, maybe a refresher course is in order so it is only 1, not more. There are cases with women who have multiple abortions where they may have problems conceiving later.

Back to the main topic, I am not really sure where the cutoff should be, but the later along it becomes the more I have a problem with it. Removing something the size of a fingernail is one thing, doing that to something that could survive on it's own is another story.
 
This is a problem ... I really think the feds have better things to do than this. But obviously not and why would they need a two year investigation for a place that advertises "we sell pot"? I thought Obama said they would lay off these sorts of things.

DEA Raids Medical Marijuana Shops in Washington State

July 24, 2013
Federal agents have raided a number of medical marijuana dispensaries in the Puget Sound region.
Drug Enforcement Administration spokeswoman Jodie Underwood said Wednesday afternoon the operation was under way. She declined to immediately provide details about how many dispensaries were being targeted or how many search warrants were being executed.
Washington state legalized adult possession of up to an ounce of marijuana last fall, but marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
Seattle medical marijuana attorney Douglas Hiatt said the targeted dispensaries include Seattle Cross, Tacoma Cross and Bayside Collective in Olympia.
Bayside employee Addy Norton said agents seized personal cell phones of dispensary workers and pot, but left computers and about $1,000 in cash. Agents told her the raid was part of a two-year investigation, and she said she was ordered to appear before a federal grand jury in Seattle in September.

The raid came just days after Bayside was burglarized on Sunday night.
 
I'll put a disclaimer on the source ... but even if the numbers are not dead on (or even half of what they claim) .. it is still stupid as hell. If they are doing a two year investigation on a place that advertises they sell the stuff, hell, the numbers might be too low.

I'll add, I have never been a big fan of pot myself, but I think if I can go grab a drink and have a smoke, people should be able to smoke a joint. Add to that the insane costs of the war on drugs, the power it gives to the gangs and the violence that causes, and generally innocent people that are locked up.

It should be legal .. not medical legal, just plain legal. The medical angle has lead to all kinds of crap doctors making money for "prescriptions", while I am sure there are people that use it for legit purposes, but those who do not (which I think is the majority) makes a joke of the whole thing. Just let people buy it from the same place they buy booze and if people really need it for medical reasons, let regular doctors prescribe it and go through insurance like any other drug.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/13/obama-medical-marijuana_n_3437636.html



An analysis from pro-medical marijuana group Americans For Safe Access found that President Barack Obama's administration has spent nearly $300 million on combatting medical marijuana in states that have legalized the drug.
The report calculates the total amount of federal spending on medical marijuana intervention at $289 million over Obama's four-and-a-half years in the White House. According to the analysis, the Drug Enforcement Administration alone spent 4 percent of its budget in 2011 and 2012 cracking down on medical marijuana across 20 states. Taken as a whole, Obama's participation makes up the majority of what ASA says is a $483 million war of lawsuits, indictments and asset forfeiture attempts waged by the Department of Justice
under the past three presidents.
The studies are just the latest figures that underscore Obama's aggressive war on pot. While Obama and members of his administration had left many marijuana reform advocates optimistic in the early stages of his first term, it quickly became clear that the new president was determined to ramp up the enforcement-focused approach to medical cannabis.
While the administration appears to have grown increasingly intolerant of marijuana, the nation appears to be going in the opposite direction. Public opinion polls have shown increasing support for a change in policy, whether it be legalizing pot for medical use or legalizing the drug altogether.

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I do agree that safe sex should be taught more in schools.

Also, I'm for legalizing all drugs because that would help cut down on quite a bit if gang activity.
 
Perun, I think I know you as a very critical thinker. I also understand you have an urge to test yourself.

But man, to doubt virtually every fact that is reported. To (almost) constantly mistrust media, that sounds more like the life in a warzone, or in the old DDR, or Iran or Russia or other countries using propaganda and means to limit freedom of speech. How can some watchblogs make you so utterly disillusioned that it has come to this?

Back to the critical thinking. I think you can use your own critical thinking in your advantage, by first judging yourself if something is to be trusted or not, and afterwards all these quadruple checks can always be done, if you feel uncomfortable about something. Why not trust your own judgement first?
 
Crimson Idol said:
There is also the addition of childbirth that many people simply don't want to go through to begin with, let alone for a child they don't actually want. There is also already so many children in need of adoption, why throw more into that?
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Then why become pregnant? I am more with Travis on this one. I am not a fan of killing life so easily.

Rape and other severe medical reasons are good enough for me but not having a child only because someone does not want to: that I find lame, and careless. Responsibility plays a big part here. If you make a dumb mistake I think you should have the responsibility to deal with that in a decent way: have it yourself, or give someone else the chance to care.

Besides, people can change ideas during a pregnancy. During a pregnancy a love for a child can be developed. Killing it off as a result of a quick decision before all these changes could take place can also cause a feeling of regret, or even trauma.
 
Forostar said:
Then why become pregnant?
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Condoms break, birth control can be defective; a couple could take precautions to avoid getting pregnant and have it happen anyway. I'm with you though, in my opinion abortion should only be used in extreme cases and in early stages of pregnancy. That said, I also don't feel as though it's my right (or any government's) to make that choice for someone else. Different people have different perspectives and the decision should be made by the parents only. As sad as you or I may find it, I don't think anyone has the authority to make such big decisions for someone else.
 
I feel it is the right of the pregnant women to have presented all the options that are possible. It is a matter of informing, not per se forcing them to choose one direction.
 
Forostar said:
Then why become pregnant?
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Things don't always happen as planned, you know.

And I'd say that the possibility of getting to love the child as it develops is the reason for having an early abortion. Once you give birth to a child, it's not that easy to leave it behind and move on with your life.
 
I never suggested forcing them to choose one direction. Quite the opposite actually, I suggested giving them the choice to do whatever they feel is best.
 
If you feel the love for the child and you can care for it, or accept help to do that, then you don't have to leave it behind.

But if you can not care for it, it's also possible that you'll love the child and be glad that someone else can, temporarily or not. I agree it is not easy indeed.

You never know how one deals with it. Things don't always happen as planned you know. ;)
 
Let's face it - a child changes your life completely and an abortion is an easy way out. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the easy way. There are as many different situations as there are pregnant women and I don't want to generalize but if a mother can't meet the basic needs of the child, she will be right to abort it. I know what institutions for abandoned children are like in some countries and I can tell you that leaving a child there is way more cruel than aborting a foetus.
 
What Mosh/Ariana said, things aren't always as planned.

I doubt that many people are sitting there about to sleep with someone and go "I've not got any contraception.. uhoh.. oh well, I can always get an abortion!". I agree that ultimately if you don't want a child and have no protection, then don't have sex. But people can take precautions and still get pregnant, it happens.
 
Ariana, I believe you when you say that circumstances in your experiences can be cruel. This differs per country. Is this is from the point of view of the mother especially? Cruel for the mother?

Let’s focus on the child as well now.

When I was almost 8 and my brother 6, my parents adopted another child. From day one. I see him as a full brother. It works fine. It wasn’t easy for the biological parents. It was easier for him. Perhaps he doesn't find the fact of having two pairs of parents and grandparents (etc) very convenient. Maybe he questions (one of) his parents or the decisions that were taken but I don't think that he would say that he rather had his own life canceled. He has his own wife and child. He leads a happy life. It was all worth it.
 
No, Foro, I meant cruel for the child.

Note that I'm not talking about adoption but about children living in institutions. Adoption is great, if it's available as an option. I agree that it differs from country to country but in my country raising a child in an institution is probably the worst thing you can do to it. The conditions and the way children are treated are monstrous - truly unspeakable - and despite all efforts from intenational child protection, health and human rights organisations, things are still the same. Very few of these children get adopted and it's usually babies that find families. For the rest, it's 18 years of nightmare before they are kicked out into the world with no chance to live a normal life. That is why I see an early abortion as the more humane move.

I can't tell you whether abortion is a good or a bad thing. I don't see it as defined by moral categories. It's just a choice, a personal choice, and as such it shouldn't be disputed or challenged.
 
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