USA Politics

You have an interesting opinion, haven't heard one like it before. I'd like to know your reasoning.

Travis The Dragon said:
If illegals weren't here in the first place, then the contractor couldn't have hired them and legal citizens would have gotten the jobs instead
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So then it's the contractors fault for giving them a job.
 
Don't forget, that many farms don't have to pay minimum wage. Contractors... meh, whatever. I really don't have a lot of experience with that, but its just like anything, if you want quality, you pay for it.

Travis, you have to understand that many Americans would rather stay on unemployment/welfare than take a $3/hour job. It isn't worth it. They can't cover the cost of gas to drive to half those jobs. Especially if you figure they only keep $2.25 of that after taxes.

If you find a legal worker that will take one of those jobs, then he/she should. Nothing stating that legal Americans can't take those jobs. They just don't.
 
Travis The Dragon said:
And like I said, if the illegals weren't here in the first place, then legal Americans would be taking those jobs.
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But then, if there were no illegals, your everyday life would be much harder and you wouldn't have time to thing about illegals.

Like it or not illegals give a boost to Economy and they indicate country's prosperity. Who would want to go illegal in Yemen, Burma or Eritrea?? Who would like to even live in those places??? I guess you wouldn't.
After there are some countries like here or Kuwait, wealthy places, with zero or few illegals. But you wouldn't like to live in a monarchy, with lack of some basic freedoms like sex. Or would you???

Since you are living in a prosperous and democratic country, you have to show some tolerance & understanding. You may not fully realize it, but illegals make you live better, as I make it possible for the locals here, to live in villas without working. Same as you, they complain all the time about us expatriates. Laughable.
 
Travis The Dragon said:
I've already been given the proof by others on here telling me that those jobs are being given to the illegals who will work for much less. If the illegals weren't here in the first place, then legal citizens would have those jobs instead.
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The immigrants wouldn't be employed if they were given the same wages as normal workers. It's not the immigrant's fault, it's that of the companies who actively seek and employ them.
 
Could you guys answer me this:
Why should someone's place of birth be a factor in whether or not they should get a job?
The Aussie who helped me up on the ski hill the other day seemed like a great guy. Got awesome service from that German girl at the restaurant Thursday.
I'm sure there were good Canadian kids who could have been doing their jobs, but should they be owed the opportunity?
Why should a workers' presence in a foreign country be illegal in the first place?
 
The question of "should they be here" is really pointless, they are here and there is no realistic way to send them back. The question for me is what to do with them and how to prevent similar influxes in the future. That is why I think, at least the outline form, being proposed in the Senate is a good way to start, but it needs to have good border securtiy, better ways for people to apply to come in, provisions for guest workers, and a strong employment verification system.
 
We'll never know what life would be life if illegals were never here since they are here.

If illegals make life better, then explain all this:

From: http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Art...government-funding-of-illegal-immigrants.html
The government funding of illegal immigrants, that don't claim U.S. residency nor pay taxes, is adding to the nation's debt. Millions of U.S. dollars go to help illegal immigrants pay for k-12 and secondary education (some even pay in-state tuition for college) as well as their welfare, Medicaid and other social services due to a lack of verification. Helping to finance illegal immigrants in a time of economic crisis is further putting the country in debt. Some undocumented immigrants do pay taxes out of pay checks (with fake social security numbers) and state taxes from purchases at the store. This is thought to counterbalance the burden of educational costs, but is actually far from it. Illegal immigrants should not receive government funding when America is already in a financial crisis.

Secondary education benefits such as in-state tuition and grants going to illegal immigrants are costing American citizens millions. It has come to be that, in many states across the country, if a person meets the state's requirements for residency, they can qualify for in-state tuition. It's improbable for someone who has an illegal status to be eligible for essentially a tuition discount for in-state residents when they're not even a legal resident of the country. Peter Kirsanov, a member of the National Labor Relations Board and the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, asserts that the primary reason for in-state tuition is that the student's parents generally have been paying taxes for the past 18 years, providing revenue for the state's college, yet in some states illegal immigrants can become eligible for residency and in-state tuition rates within two or three years. Out-of-state tuition can be triple that of in-state tuition cost, resulting in a huge loss for the state; "according to the Congressional Budget Office, making illegal alien students eligible for federal tuition assistance through Pell grants would have cost $195 million in 2003 and $362 million over the 2003-2006 period" (Martin). The hundreds of millions of U.S. dollars being lost through tuition discounts and other financial assistance are also accompanied by the illegal loans that were made that attribute to the nation's economic crisis.

Fraudulent loans and mortgages had a large impact in the downfall of the nation's economy. When the housing industry fell and the stock market crashed many people lost their homes and other assets due to foreclosure and lack of payments on their loans. A large percentage of those who became victim to the crisis were immigrants. Many lenders were making it easy for illegal immigrants to obtain loans and mortgages by not requiring much documentation. Lankford found that "the defrauders manufactured and submitted false employment and income documentation for borrowers; most were illegal immigrants from Mexico. To date, the FBI reported, 'Fifty-eight loans with a total value of $6.2 million have gone into default, with a loss to the Housing and Urban Development Department of over $1.9 million". The lenders share blame with immigrants for this impact, since most of them knew they were committing fraud. The desire to increase business, obtaining which through illegal measures, has ultimately been the downfall of the United States economy. Immigration has not only had an effect on the economy on society in many other ways too.

Illegal immigration largely affects the quality, human capital, and the prosperity of the United States, particularly in California. When immigrants come in and already have a learned skill and some education, naturally it would have a positive impact on the societies that they move to. When people come into any country or new area and have little skill and/ or education, then of course the society will be impacted negatively.
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Also, see this: http://news.yahoo.com/national-survey-shows-americans-prefer-illegal-immigrants-head-090000599.html
 
I've gotta give Foro a +1 on that one.

Travis, after all is said and done, the problem becomes one of reaction, not regret. You can bitch about 'illegals' all you want, but the fact is they ARE here, and they HAVE those jobs. The problem so many people have is that they look at what 'shouldn't' be, not what is and how to fix it. Great, you think they shouldn't have those jobs. How do we fix it. Clearly, the economy will collapse or go to shit, or both, if 11million workers were sent 'home'. So what do we do? Taking 5 million people out of the southwest isn't going to give a job to someone in New England or Chicago. You can't just say 'hey, guy from 2,500 miles away, leave your family and home and go to California and pick oranges'.

So, instead of being a reactive regressionist, let's find a proactive way to fix this.
 
Hire legals for the jobs and after the jobs are filled by legals who live in the same area as the illegals, send the illegals home whose jobs have been replaced.
 
You're over simplifying it. You think it's easier than it really is and you also think that all of those jobs will be filled by legal citizens. It's simply not true
 
Travis The Dragon said:
Hire legals for the jobs and after the jobs are filled by legals who live in the same area as the illegals, send the illegals home whose jobs have been replaced.
Click to expand...


Travis-- 'legals' won't take the jobs. There is NOTHING stopping a legal American from taking those jobs-- other than the fact that they won't. That is as clear as it can be made. You can't force legal workers to take those jobs. They just don't want them. I'm sorry that it can't be made any clearer for you than that.
 
The proof is that they aren't taking those jobs. As Wasted said,nothing is stopping legal citizens. Making your font bigger isn't going to change that.

Get over your prejudice, seriously. Why does it matter if they come from other countries? They're working and earning their place. On top of that, they keep the price of YOUR food down. They're doing nothing to harm you, let it go.
 
They may be keeping my food prices down, but it doesn't fix this(which no one has commented on yet):

From: http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Art...government-funding-of-illegal-immigrants.html
The government funding of illegal immigrants, that don't claim U.S. residency nor pay taxes, is adding to the nation's debt. Millions of U.S. dollars go to help illegal immigrants pay for k-12 and secondary education (some even pay in-state tuition for college) as well as their welfare, Medicaid and other social services due to a lack of verification. Helping to finance illegal immigrants in a time of economic crisis is further putting the country in debt. Some undocumented immigrants do pay taxes out of pay checks (with fake social security numbers) and state taxes from purchases at the store. This is thought to counterbalance the burden of educational costs, but is actually far from it. Illegal immigrants should not receive government funding when America is already in a financial crisis.

Secondary education benefits such as in-state tuition and grants going to illegal immigrants are costing American citizens millions. It has come to be that, in many states across the country, if a person meets the state's requirements for residency, they can qualify for in-state tuition. It's improbable for someone who has an illegal status to be eligible for essentially a tuition discount for in-state residents when they're not even a legal resident of the country. Peter Kirsanov, a member of the National Labor Relations Board and the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, asserts that the primary reason for in-state tuition is that the student's parents generally have been paying taxes for the past 18 years, providing revenue for the state's college, yet in some states illegal immigrants can become eligible for residency and in-state tuition rates within two or three years. Out-of-state tuition can be triple that of in-state tuition cost, resulting in a huge loss for the state; "according to the Congressional Budget Office, making illegal alien students eligible for federal tuition assistance through Pell grants would have cost $195 million in 2003 and $362 million over the 2003-2006 period" (Martin). The hundreds of millions of U.S. dollars being lost through tuition discounts and other financial assistance are also accompanied by the illegal loans that were made that attribute to the nation's economic crisis.

Fraudulent loans and mortgages had a large impact in the downfall of the nation's economy. When the housing industry fell and the stock market crashed many people lost their homes and other assets due to foreclosure and lack of payments on their loans. A large percentage of those who became victim to the crisis were immigrants. Many lenders were making it easy for illegal immigrants to obtain loans and mortgages by not requiring much documentation. Lankford found that "the defrauders manufactured and submitted false employment and income documentation for borrowers; most were illegal immigrants from Mexico. To date, the FBI reported, 'Fifty-eight loans with a total value of $6.2 million have gone into default, with a loss to the Housing and Urban Development Department of over $1.9 million". The lenders share blame with immigrants for this impact, since most of them knew they were committing fraud. The desire to increase business, obtaining which through illegal measures, has ultimately been the downfall of the United States economy. Immigration has not only had an effect on the economy on society in many other ways too.

Illegal immigration largely affects the quality, human capital, and the prosperity of the United States, particularly in California. When immigrants come in and already have a learned skill and some education, naturally it would have a positive impact on the societies that they move to. When people come into any country or new area and have little skill and/ or education, then of course the society will be impacted negatively.
Click to expand...
 
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