Unpopular Metal/Rock Opinions

MrKnickerbocker said:
I don't want this to become a thread about black metal, so: please PM me any black metal bands that have good lyrics, quality production values, lyrics that are discernible (even if they are growled/screamed), and some sort of melody in the music and vocal. If there is no band that can do those things, than yes, I will dismiss the entire genre as something that I do not enjoy. but I did my say and am doing it now for the second time. But you can't. Only via pm.
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My reaction was perfectly on topic. People discuss power metal, people discuss harsh vocals, disco, 70s rock music, grunge, you name it. So why on earth can't people discuss black metal? All these discussions came forth out of someone's opinion, so treat them equal dude.
 
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MrKnickerbocker said:
I don't want this to become a thread about black metal, so: please PM me any black metal bands that have good lyrics, quality production values, lyrics that are discernible (even if they are growled/screamed), and some sort of melody in the music and vocal. If there is no band that can do those things, than yes, I will dismiss the entire genre as something that I do not enjoy.
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I'd recommend three black metal bands to start out with: Naglfar, because they are very similar to Iron Maiden in many ways- sometimes they are like Maiden with growls; Dark Funeral for sheer accessibility; and Vreid, because they are the best display of what is called "black 'n' roll", the most accessible type of black metal. Check out their 2009 album, Milorg. I'm pretty sure you will like it.
 
I wasn't saying we couldn't discuss it, I was simply asking for suggestions without having them linked in this thread (we have a black metal thread for that). Sorry, perhaps my tone was a bit harsh.
A-hee...ah-hee-hee-hee

Thanks for the suggestions, @Perun!
 
The cool thing about Black Metal is there's a lot of variety in there. I'm not going to say that there's something for everybody there, because it can still be pretty inaccessible, but I think there's more variety there than some give it credit for. Sure there's the stuff like Darkthrone which I suppose would be your "typical" black metal, but there are lots of bands that dabble in other styles as well. I think as a label, Black Metal is really quite broad. Personally I enjoy it most when fused with other genres, like in Deafheaven or the first few Opeth albums. I also think it works great as background music, something to set an atmosphere with or if you want a bit of noise. Unlike other "noisy" genres like that however, I think you can also get a lot out of it by listening attentively. I'm not gonna argue that there's more depth or emotion than other genres, and honestly I think that's a bit of a silly point to make in general, but I do think there's a lot of depth there and a lot more going on than what is apparent for a newcomer.

Some unpopular/controversial/what have you opinions from me:

  • Paradise Lost by Symphony X is a modern classic. One of the best and most cinematic metal albums I've heard and easily in SX's top 3.
  • Train of Thought by Dream Theater is a great album. It gets a bit overindulgent at times but I love the riffs and the overall heaviness.
  • I don't find Black Sabbath to be as great as many make them out to be. They're a good band with lots of great albums/songs, but I think they're a pretty large step below other Metal giants such as Iron Maiden and Judas Priest.
  • Glam metal is a lot of fun. It's pretty silly but I never get the impression that those bands are taking themselves very seriously anyway. They were great at writing nice catchy songs.
  • Heading For Tomorrow is easily the best Gamma Ray album. Sail On is their best song. I honestly think it's a good "gateway" album for power metal. It has lots of power metal tropes but I think it has enough traditional metal influence for a new fan to ease their way into. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who really doesn't like power metal for the most part.
 
Mosh said:
  • Paradise Lost by Symphony X is a modern classic. One of the best and most cinematic metal albums I've heard and easily in SX's top 3.
  • Train of Thought by Dream Theater is a great album. It gets a bit overindulgent at times but I love the riffs and the overall heaviness.
  • I don't find Black Sabbath to be as great as many make them out to be. They're a good band with lots of great albums/songs, but I think they're a pretty large step below other Metal giants such as Iron Maiden and Judas Priest.
  • Glam metal is a lot of fun. It's pretty silly but I never get the impression that those bands are taking themselves very seriously anyway. They were great at writing nice catchy songs.
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- Paradise Lost is a classic. It's not my favorite SX album, but I do believe it is their most consistent.
- Train of Thought is my favorite DT album.
- Black Sabbath is far below Maiden, IMO, and far above Priest.
- I think some glam metal can be fun, but a lot is very bad. There is no doubt that a lot if it is insanely catchy, though. To that, I can agree.
 
Oh yea, agreed about PL being the most consistent. The Odyssey almost wins that title, but King of Terrors and The Turning bring it down a little. Good songs, but not up to the standard of the rest of the album. Everything on PL is great and there's never any moments where the quality dips. Plus the flow of the album is really great, and there's a nice balance on there. Feels really quick too, leaves me wanting more.

There's definitely a lot of bad glam metal, no arguing that. I think there are some great albums in the genre though, such as the first Winger or the first two Extreme albums (though all 4 of the original albums are amazing, but their last two weren't really glam metal). Other bands like Dokken, Poison, or White Lion had great songs but none of their full albums are very good.
 
Mosh said:
none of their full albums are very good.
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Motherfuckers act like they forgot about Crüe.

hawk50_Motley-Crue-Shout-At-The-Devil.jpg
 
My Motley Crue Greatest Hits CD has all the songs from that album that I need. :D
 
Forostar said:
May I present an unpopular opinion in this topic:

The more unpopular opinions some of you have (and some of these are quite numerous and/or disqualify a large amount of metal: especially the anti-harsh vocal department, or the complete dismissal of power metal, a genre which can have various sounding bands), the more limited is your tolerance and listening range in metal/rock.

Ultimely this leads to an increased chance of generalizing (this doesn't fit in my "category"), which can lead to cancelling new discoveries or possibilities to let music grow. It gives less room for subtle opinions.
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I've heard too much power metal to say that I have absolutely no bias towards it. The thing is, I find the main idea of the genre worthless. I didn't base my opinion towards the genre simply on bands I've heard. I simply dislike the combination of heavy metal like vocals and thrash like rhythms. Only way a power metal band can grasp my liking is not doing power metal and doing something different for a change.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
- I find black metal to be devoid of everything except walls of sound. Death metal has way more emotional depth than prog, but I'd still like to be able to understand the lyrics. Not understanding the vocals surely cuts down on my emotional enjoyment of music.
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Black metal and death metal aren't that different y'know. One thing that's different for me, is that while listening to music I can just... unfocus on the lyrics. I mean, my English is great but it's still not my maternal language. So while listening to Iron Maiden I can understand all the words but don't really focus on the meaning of the lyrics and such. Tough to explain really... But I can't listen to music in Serbian because I can't "unfocus" on the lyrics, and really... we don't have music with good lyrics :p So really, I don't focus on the lyrics sung with clean vocals... so growls are almost the same to me in that regard.

The Flash said:
- Death metal does have more emotional depth than any other metal genre there is. I don't know what prog you've heard, but it's hard to be more emotionally strong than some stuff from King Crimson, Pink Floyd or Genesis.
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That's why I said most :p

But anyway, I think it's kinda sad when metalheads describe more extreme metal genres as noise... it reminds me of the way non-metalheads describe all of metal... and I expect more open-mindedness from fellow metalheads :p

MrKnickerbocker said:
I don't want this to become a thread about black metal, so: please PM me any black metal bands that have good lyrics, quality production values, lyrics that are discernible (even if they are growled/screamed), and some sort of melody in the music and vocal. If there is no band that can do those things, than yes, I will dismiss the entire genre as something that I do not enjoy.
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Black metal with no wall of sound here... or fast parts:
Black metal ballad:
Black metal with lots of clean vocals:
Meloblack (weak vocals though)
Complex/proggy black metal with cleans, long songs... kinda BM-Opeth:
Black'n'roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh845ZUZzHI
 
Night Prowler said:
One thing that's different for me, is that while listening to music I can just... unfocus on the lyrics.
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I have the same. I guess it can help with focusing on music. As if there's more room. A clean vocal a grunt or a scream is regarded as an instrument fitting the picture. But that doesn't mean that it has less impact. It's still an emotion that can be felt.

Naturally, if I want to focus on the lyrics, I can do that. And if I find them hard to understand, I'll just read the lyrics in the booklet or search them on internet.

Not unimportant:
I am listening to talking people, whole day. I really do not mind to not focus on hearing words every once in a while, when there's great music. :)
 
Night Prowler said:
But I can't listen to music in Serbian because I can't "unfocus" on the lyrics
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A good point. Even as someone who cares more about music, not understanding the language does take something away. I find it interesting to hear German singing, because I know just enough basic German to understand about a third of it, and so I'm not entirely lost. The two-thirds I don't understand provides a level of mystery I don't usually get, which is fun. It's more interesting to know just a little and wonder, than to know nothing.
 
I have a very hard time distancing myself from lyrics, as vocals are the instrument I pay the most attention to. Lyrics in another language are actually easier for me to tune out and accept as another layer of instrumentation, simply because I don't know what is being said.
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
A good point. Even as someone who cares more about music, not understanding the language does take something away. I find it interesting to hear German singing, because I know just enough basic German to understand about a third of it, and so I'm not entirely lost. The two-thirds I don't understand provides a level of mystery I don't usually get, which is fun. It's more interesting to know just a little and wonder, than to know nothing.
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Er, I'm not sure you got my point. I can't listen to music in Serbian, because it's my maternal language and I can't not notice bad lyrics, which are the case in about 99,999% of Serbian music. In English and other languages, I don't have that problem, so not understanding growled lyrics is not really important for me...
 
Understanding growled lyrics is a big deal for me, not because of the value of lyrics per se, but because I think of it as a sign of quality vocals. I continue to do dislike growls where you can't make up what the vocalist is saying but as I said before, ones where you can have grown on me drastically.
 
The Black Album is good...but that's about all I can say about it. It doesn't leave much of an impression, it's just decent. After OWAM, the album does get kind of boring in my view (not to mention the tedious NEM). However, songs like Wherever I May Roam are among Metallica's finest, and there's enough scattered in that first half to make it worth listening to.
 
I never gave two shits about paying attention to Death Metal lyrics, because for the most part they're not really telling you anything, they're just trying to be the most extreme. So yeah...when I listen to Death Metal, music rules supreme...
 
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