UK Politics

With regards to problems in the UK, not directly relating to this story but you have expressed curiosity about the state of things, all I can say from my own experience is that I have been to cities in Lithuania, Poland and the Czech Republic in the last 12 months or so and all of them felt  significantly safer, cleaner, more orderly and more pleasant to visit than London, to a somewhat depressing extent quite frankly. Take from that what you will.

However much, even most, of the UK is still very nice and is not experiencing the dystopian conditions that some, particularly US MAGA commentators, like to portray.

Funny you mention that, as I feel much safer when I go to London than in other big and not so big cities I have visited (e.g., Prague, Barcelona, Paris, Brussels...).

@Azas Visiting Lithuania is on my bucket list (probably combined with Estonia and Latvia). In fact, my all time sporting hero is Lithuanian.

Apologies for the off-topic! :lol:
 
Funny you mention that, as I feel much safer when I go to London than in other big and not so big cities I have visited (e.g., Prague, Barcelona, Paris, Brussels...).

@Azas Visiting Lithuania is on my bucket list (probably combined with Estonia and Latvia). In fact, my all time sporting hero is Lithuanian.

Apologies for the off-topic! :lol:

Sabonis? Alekna?
 
Food for thought:

Immigrants and descendants in Denmark account for about 18.1% of all convicted criminal offenses, while Danish citizens are responsible for the remaining majority. First-generation immigrants and descendants—particularly from non-Western or MENAPT countries—are statistically overrepresented in crime statistics relative to their population size. [1, 2, 3]
Key Statistics and Context:
  • General Crime Share: Foreigners legally residing in Denmark represent about 11% of the total population. They commit 18.1% of all criminal offenses and 14.6% of overall offenses (which include traffic violations). [1]
  • Violent Crimes: Non-Western immigrants and descendants, who make up roughly 10.6% of the population, account for a disproportionately larger share of serious offenses, committing nearly 30% of violent crimes and over 32% of rapes. [1]
  • Second-Generation Disparity: Descendants of non-Western immigrants generally show a higher crime index, committing overall crimes at almost 2.7 times the rate of native Danes. [1]
  • Labor vs. Refugee Demographics: Studies show that a large share of the disparity is concentrated in specific demographic and refugee groups. Conversely, international labor migrants and Western immigrants have crime rates comparable to or even lower than native-born Danes. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • Socioeconomic Factors: Research indicates that socioeconomic status and educational background play a major role in these statistics, with the overrepresentation largely decreasing when adjusted for income and parental employment. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Google info.
 
Funny you mention that, as I feel much safer when I go to London than in other big and not so big cities I have visited (e.g., Prague, Barcelona, Paris, Brussels...).

@Azas Visiting Lithuania is on my bucket list (probably combined with Estonia and Latvia). In fact, my all time sporting hero is Lithuanian.

Apologies for the off-topic! :lol:
London still feels a lot better to me than Lisbon, which I visited around 18 months ago, even in the touristy areas with families roaming around I was frequently accosted by unsavoury characters trying to sell me cigarettes and drugs, perhaps I look shifty as well and they thought I was a prospective customer. I've not been to Paris or Barcelona in some years so I don't know how they are these days.

Personally, my experiences in Central and Eastern Europe have been more pleasant, Vilnius is a splendid place to visit and I would highly recommend the Museum of Occupations and Freedom Fighters as well as one of the number of walking tours on offer.
 
London still feels a lot better to me than Lisbon, which I visited around 18 months ago, even in the touristy areas with families roaming around I was frequently accosted by unsavoury characters trying to sell me cigarettes and drugs, perhaps I look shifty as well and they thought I was a prospective customer. I've not been to Paris or Barcelona in some years so I don't know how they are these days.

I have visited Lisbon many times over the years and it never ceases to amaze me how I always end up being offered drugs! Beautiful city though.
 
Don’t tell me what to do, man. I’m not going to engage any further, nor am I going to spend time digging up facts or answers, simply because you completely ignoring my other posts and only show up to play forum policeman.*

By writing this, I fully realize I’m handing you ammunition for the usual ‘yet another person who can’t provide facts to support his position’ speech. Bla, bla, bla.

But that doesn’t make you the winner of the argument.

*Of course, you’re perfectly entitled to ignore me. But I’m equally entitled to ignore what I see as your selective focus on particular topics while overlooking others.
I'm simply calling out your disingenuous behavior, as well as noting that you have literally admitted before that you care more about how things make you feel than about if they are true or not. You literally said that you don't care about the facts.

Unlike you, I post proper, trustworthy sources. So much for being able to admit you're wrong lmao

Also, the fact that you refuse to quote specific posts just proves that you were once again lying (or imagining things that never happened) and threw accusations around that were blatantly wrong.
 
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London still feels a lot better to me than Lisbon, which I visited around 18 months ago, even in the touristy areas with families roaming around I was frequently accosted by unsavoury characters trying to sell me cigarettes and drugs, perhaps I look shifty as well and they thought I was a prospective customer. I've not been to Paris or Barcelona in some years so I don't know how they are these days.

Personally, my experiences in Central and Eastern Europe have been more pleasant, Vilnius is a splendid place to visit and I would highly recommend the Museum of Occupations and Freedom Fighters as well as one of the number of walking tours on offer.
It often depends where exactly you go to. Generally, the larger a city, the likelier you'll have dangerous neighborhoods. There are cities in Germany where I felt perfectly safe. There are some parts of cities where I didn't feel safe. Same with Greece, same with Spain, same with France, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Albania, Bulgaria and Romania.

I can't say anything about London in particular (I'll visit next spring!) but overall in my experience you can rarely generalize entire cities or countries (especially capitals) without finding contradictions.
 
I can't say anything about London in particular (I'll visit next spring!) but overall in my experience you can rarely generalize entire cities or countries (especially capitals) without finding contradictions.
This is true, having lived in London for a few years it is almost better described as a cluster of many towns squeezed next to each other, with the different boroughs all having their own distinct character and identity.
 
This is true, having lived in London for a few years it is almost better described as a cluster of many towns squeezed next to each other, with the different boroughs all having their own distinct character and identity.
I think that describes it quite well. It's probably true for most of the big European cities as well. Smaller settlements with their own identity or even culture, growing and growing and uniting into what we know today. New York is like that as well. Probably other places in the world as well, but I focus on Europe since I'm more familiar with those cities.
 
The one and only Arvydas Sabonis. I grew up watching him play in the 80s. Unbelievable player, who I was later lucky enough to personally meet and see play in the flesh.

When I was a kid in the 1980s, my family and I used to watch Žalgiris, with Sabonis in their ranks, battle CSKA Moscow. Even though we were still part of the Soviet Union, it felt like an ‘us versus them’ moment.

Yeah, Sabas was a one-in-a-million player.
 
I'll give just one example of how you, @Vaenyr, tend to respond.

I wrote:

"If that's the case, then there are clearly some problems in the UK."
This was based on a tweet that appears to be legitimate and, as I understand it, was ultimately derived from a report in The Telegraph. The Telegraph may have a centre-right editorial stance, but it is still a mainstream and generally reputable publication.

In other words, the tweet was not obvious disinformation. It was something that could reasonably be discussed.

Then you replied:

"Has anyone in this thread insisted that 'everything is fine'?"
I interpreted that response as a form of attack or needling. I never claimed that everyone on this forum thinks everything is fine. Yes, perhaps I was stating something obvious, but since when is that forbidden?

The way I read your comment was: "Be quiet. We already know there are problems. There's no need for you to point them out."

Pardon me, but isn't that just nitpicking and being dismissive? Hello, moral compass!

If I post blatant fake news, then by all means correct me. That's fair. But if I'm making a point that may be obvious, I don't see why that automatically calls for a dismissive response or a lecture.

That's how I see it.
 
I interpreted that response as a form of attack or needling. I never claimed that everyone on this forum thinks everything is fine. Yes, perhaps I was stating something obvious, but since when is that forbidden?
Way to misrepresent the chain of events. What you wrote, and to which I responded, was:

Unlike some people who still insist that everything is fine, which is clearly not the case.
You made a definitive statement. You claimed that "some people" (who are they? Who is "some"?) insist that everything is fine (where have they done that? Show their posts, quote them).

The way I read your comment was: "Be quiet. We already know there are problems. There's
no need for you to point them out."
I'm not responsible for how you choose to (mis-)interpret someone's words. I asked you to substantiate your claim instead of alluding vaguely to stuff.
 
The article appeared to trace back to The Telegraph—is that considered a mainstream and reputable newspaper in the UK?
I view the Telegraph as a right wing hate rag that's constantly trying to make older people froth with rage, but that may just be the opinion pieces.

It's nicknamed The Torygraph due to its completely unwavering support for anything the conservative party does.
 
I view the Telegraph as a right wing hate rag that's constantly trying to make older people froth with rage, but that may just be the opinion pieces.

It's nicknamed The Torygraph due to its completely unwavering support for anything the conservative party does.
Ok, I've now seen this article on their website. Is this outlet essentially a hate rag, or was the man suspended unfairly simply for raising some questions?

That said, we don't know the full context of what happened, so it's difficult to judge the situation with confidence.

 
Ok, I've now seen this article on their website. Is this outlet essentially a hate rag, or was the man suspended unfairly simply for raising some questions?

That said, we don't know the full context of what happened, so it's difficult to judge the situation with confidence.

I.mean, the story is widely reported elsewhere including on the BBC so its obviously a real situation, and it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that an appendage of the British state would be overly deferential to Islam out of a neurotic fear of 'causing offence'. The Muslim officer in the story was even receptive to the man's questions and happy to discuss and debate with him, but once the bureaucracy got wind of it they tried to get rid of him.
 
Ok, I've now seen this article on their website. Is this outlet essentially a hate rag, or was the man suspended unfairly simply for raising some questions?

That said, we don't know the full context of what happened, so it's difficult to judge the situation with confidence.


It's quite difficult to ascertain what's actually happened as the article reduces entire training sessions and conversations to the shortest most inflammatory quotes they can:

For example:

"Mr Salmons, 46, told The Telegraph that a training day on race, religion and culture turned into an “indoctrination” session as trainers chanted “Islam is a religion of peace” and discussed white privilege."

The person writing the article is trying to push the indoctrination characterisation by inserting the word chanting here. Later in the article there's a quote from Salmons that doesn't characterise it as chanting. This is a deliberate choice the writer has made.



"Mr Salmons suggested that if children were raised in solid family homes and taught right from wrong the problem would decrease, which resulted in the trainer reporting him to his sergeant who told him he could not talk about his morals in the workplace."

I'm trying to read between the lines here, but I think what's happened is Salmon suggested if everyone was raised as a straight Christian like him then the problem would decrease. Nothing is quoted here so it seems to be a reinterpretation of what was actually said.


His fellow officers reported him as a "risk"(though again risk is a literal single word quote, so we don't know the full context here)


Unfortunately we don't have much of the other side of the story from the police to give us more context. At the end of the article we do have this:

"The spokesman added that Mr Salmons had been referred to the professional standards department “following reports of concern from a number of colleagues about his behaviour and views”.

“He was found to have committed gross misconduct before the chief constable upheld his appeal against the decision finding that while Mr Salmons had made colleagues feel uncomfortable and unsettled at times, his actions did not represent gross misconduct nor a breach of any of the Police Staff Standards of Professional Behaviour.”


I think this officer has a particular bee in his bonnet about Muslims. His questions to a Muslim officer went straight to gaza, hamas, terrorism and jihad. He got a Christian apologetics book against Islam to bring to his conversation with a Muslim officer.

But because he's a Christian the Telegraph is framing him as a helpless well meaning victim that did nothing wrong. I think the reality is likely to be far more nuanced than that.


You should also question why the Telegraph has chosen to run this particular article at this time?

I don't think it's an honest attempt to analyse what happened with Henry. The intended effect seem to be to wind up their old male Conservative readership.
"The police are being indoctrinated into ISLAM! Everything is DEI and WOKE! MUSLIMS ARE BAD!" etc etc.
 
The person writing the article is trying to push the indoctrination characterisation by inserting the word chanting here. Later in the article there's a quote from Salmons that doesn't characterise it as chanting. This is a deliberate choice the writer has made.


I'm trying to read between the lines here, but I think what's happened is Salmon suggested if everyone was raised as a straight Christian like him then the problem would decrease. Nothing is quoted here so it seems to be a reinterpretation of what was actually said.


I think this officer has a particular bee in his bonnet about Muslims. His questions to a Muslim officer went straight to gaza, hamas, terrorism and jihad. He got a Christian apologetics book against Islam to bring to his conversation with a Muslim officer.


You should also question why the Telegraph has chosen to run this particular article at this time?
Very amusing that you state the author is trying to push a certain angle whilst simultaneously inferring things that aren't stated in the article in order to try to paint the officer as a bigot. As for why the story is being reported now, the officer has just won a legal settlement as part of his appeal against his suspension, so clearly he was not treated fairly during this process.

 
Thanks for the additional context, I didn't realise the case had just been finished.

I do think it's right that he's won his appeal as gross misconduct definitely seems extreme for what's described.

But clearly there's something going on if multiple of his coworkers have raised concerns about his behaviour and views.
 
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