GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Not for the Dutch, if I am not mistaken.
UK Politics
- Thread starter CriedWhenBrucieLeft
- Start date
Not for the Dutch, if I am not mistaken.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
But if a Dutch wants to get dual nationality it is not possible, is it? At least that is what my Dutch colleague at work says.
The rules for different countries are sometimes bizarre and, in cases, somewhat inconsistent. I became a British citizen and can keep my Spanish nationality as long as I declare my wish to do so within 3 years of becoming British, therefore having dual nationality. However, if a British (or a German, Dutch, French... any nationality with the exception of Latin American countries) wants to become Spanish, it has to renounce to the British citizenship first and surrender his/her British passport.
Germany allows dual citizenship with other EU countries, but not with countries outside the EU (with some exceptions).
It is all a bit of a mess.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
True .. but 1 years, 10 years, the rest of my life ... really does not matter. Voting always seems like a right of citizenship to me and that should really be limited to 1 country. If I was a permanent resident in Germany and a citizen of the US, I could still vote in the US ... voting in the US and Germany does not seem correct to me
I didn't even know there were limitations. I know Iranians and Turks can have dual citizenship.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Not entirely true. It depends on the other country as well.
The following is for Dutch => British nationality:
You lose Dutch nationality, but here are the exceptions:
1. You are born in the UK. And there is your main residence when you get the British nationality.
2. Before you became adult, you've had your main residence in the UK, for 5 uninterrupted years or longer.
3. I'm not sure if I translate (or understand) this one well but here goes: If your husband, wife or registered partner already has British nationality, and you go for that as well.
A minor (non adult) who becomes Brit, does not lose Dutch nationality as long as one of the parents is Dutch.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
From an article from 2014:
Almost 4,3 million Germans have a second passport. Especially people from Poland, Russia and Turkey.
Recently Germany has become less strict with double nationality:
"Die Bundesregierung hatte vor wenigen Tagen eine neue Regelung für die doppelte Staatsbürgerschaft auf den Weg gebracht. Bisher war es vor allem für Ausländer aus EU-Staaten und Menschen mit Eltern verschiedener Nationalitäten möglich, neben der deutschen eine weitere Staatsangehörigkeit zu haben. Die neue Gesetzesvorlage sieht vor, dass auch in Deutschland geborene oder aufgewachsene Kinder von Zuwanderern aus Nicht-EU-Staaten unter bestimmten Umständen neben der deutschen auch die Staatsbürgerschaft ihrer Eltern behalten dürfen. Bisher mussten sie sich bis zum 23. Lebensjahr für eine Staatsbürgerschaft entscheiden."
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Thanks. I knew there had to be some exceptions, but neither of those cases apply to my mate.
It seems the Dutch government wants to limit dual citizenship as much as possible (that is what they say here):
https://www.government.nl/topics/dutch-nationality/dual-nationality
Voluntary acquisition of another nationality seems to mean losing your Dutch nationality, with some exceptions:
https://www.government.nl/topics/dutch-nationality/loss-of-dutch-nationality
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GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
There are several limitations. I am by no means an expert, but as my brother and his family live in Germany (and both their kids have been born in Germany), out of curiosity I did some research into this (not that they ever have shown an interest in becoming German, but that is a different story). This applies to naturalisation, in addition to showing a good command of the German language and passing a German citizenship test:
To become a naturalized citizen, you have to have lived in Germany under a limited residence permit for at least eight years. But you can also get this shortened to seven years if you take a German-language integration course, which can be done fairly affordably through a local Volkshochschule (basically a community college)
On top of that, you have to prove you can support yourself financially and have committed no serious criminal offences. Non-EU citizens must also give up their current nationality - except for in circumstances where this isn’t possible, like countries that do not allow citizens to do this. EU citizens are permitted to hold dual nationality with Germany and their native EU country.
Kids born inside of Germany to non-German parents - on or after January 1st 2000 - can also get citizenship under certain circumstances. At least one parent must have lived in the country legally and regularly for at least eight years and have a permanent right of residency.Still, between 18 and 23 years of age, the child has to decide which nationality to keep, if they have more than one.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
British criteria regarding dual citizenship are much more relaxed. However, if you voluntarily become a Brit, the expectation is that this nationality would take precedence over your other nationality (something that makes perfect sense to me).
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
I wasn't allowed to vote in the U.S while being a resident. Voting, elected office (except for the presidency) is a privilege, not a right, of citizens. Compared to European nations, the U.S gives out citizenships like peanuts. I know the Constitution says "voting rights." But lets be honest. If a resident can get a driver's license, join the army, has a right to all OTHER rights and considerations under the law, EXCEPT voting... then it isn't a "right."
As for voting from "miles away. While in the U.S I could vote in Mexican elections and now that I'm back in Mexico I can vote in U.S elections. Given I have dual citizenship and stakes in both countries I see nothing wrong in voting from "miles away," as the people in office in both countries enact policies that impact me directly.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
But seriously, a lot of Leave voters are (finally) realizing this is not a good idea.
The closer we get to Brexit, the more polls show Britain wants to remain in Europe
- YouGov polls show a straight-line decline in support among British for leaving the EU in 2019.
- Support for a second referendum on the terms of the deal is rising.
- A NatCen “poll of polls” puts Remain at 52% vs Leave at 48%.
- The government must get its Brexit deal approved in parliament by January 21, 2019.
- If it cannot get that vote, May’s government could topple.
- Then, chaos ensues.
The data for the chart is based on YouGov polling, and each bar represents the average of polls taken within that month. The results show an almost straight line decline in support for Brexit since 2016.
I did laugh at 'Limp Brexit'. It's still an almighty divisive mess, though, and I doubt there would be any overall change of heart if there was a new referendum. If anything, I think more people who were previously disinterested or sitting on the fence would vote leave, angry that politicians are trying to reverse what has become touted as the will of the people.
Certain sections of the media - usually those promoting business interests or playing to a left-of-centre audience - are running a lot more stories about doubts over Brexit. In the case of The Independent in particular, they're really over-egging it, to the extent of being as alarmist as the anti-EU tabloids on the other side. You'll find as many pro-Brexit social media posts and memes as you will Remain ones.
Certain sections of the media - usually those promoting business interests or playing to a left-of-centre audience - are running a lot more stories about doubts over Brexit. In the case of The Independent in particular, they're really over-egging it, to the extent of being as alarmist as the anti-EU tabloids on the other side. You'll find as many pro-Brexit social media posts and memes as you will Remain ones.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Many polls predicted that Remain would win too!
At the end of the day, a poll represents a tiny sample, and that is why they have been proved not to be too reliable in the past.
I actually think that most polls are reliable, but polls are only reliable when built on existing data. A referendum to leave the EU was never done before in the UK, so it makes polling difficult. Polling tends to be a fairly exact science when done with lots of skill and with lots of background processes available. It's very interesting.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
I refer you to the previous post by Brigantium if you want to get the feel of many people in the UK, especially on the issue of a second referendum. There was one referendum and the results have to be honoured, whether we like them or not.
Don't look at me, if I was in the EU I'd have told Britain, "Go fuck yourself, no deal."
The same advice I gave to Mr. Trudeau about a new NAFTA. Fuck it. We don't need it that badly (we really, really do).
The same advice I gave to Mr. Trudeau about a new NAFTA. Fuck it. We don't need it that badly (we really, really do).
Various high profile political opinion polls I've seen in recent years have been wrong to the extent that it looks like they were either created/interpreted/publicised to help panic-sway opinion, or (more likely IMO) for media marketing strategy reasons. The most widely quoted polls before the referendum put Remain well ahead. Media coverage has noticeably said more recently about teetering on the brink of Brexit having second thoughts, and been giving greater column space/airtime to the possibility of a second referendum or a referendum on hard v soft Brexit. They say more to me about media self-marketing than anything. Get people arguing in those comments columns, get more hits and clicks.
I've never really expected the ruling party to reach a deal, not least because the chief Brexit campaigners never had any sort of plan, just vague aspirations and dislikes. There's also the likelihood that a 'soft' Brexit deal would mean some EU rules and restrictions would still be binding and would restrict, for example, the UK's own policies on trade with non-EU countries, and freedom of movement policies. Financial contributions to certain EU funds might also continue to be binding. This is unlikely to be acceptable to diehard Brexit voters*, they expected to completely leave the EU. May, as with Cameron before her, probably does recognise the business and economic implications of severing all ties, but is going through the motions - for the sake of placating business lobbyists at the very least - of trying and failing to get a deal.
*I've yet to meet a half-hearted one
I've never really expected the ruling party to reach a deal, not least because the chief Brexit campaigners never had any sort of plan, just vague aspirations and dislikes. There's also the likelihood that a 'soft' Brexit deal would mean some EU rules and restrictions would still be binding and would restrict, for example, the UK's own policies on trade with non-EU countries, and freedom of movement policies. Financial contributions to certain EU funds might also continue to be binding. This is unlikely to be acceptable to diehard Brexit voters*, they expected to completely leave the EU. May, as with Cameron before her, probably does recognise the business and economic implications of severing all ties, but is going through the motions - for the sake of placating business lobbyists at the very least - of trying and failing to get a deal.
*I've yet to meet a half-hearted one