The Problem with the X-Factor?
- Thread starter Eric Wright
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Magnus
currently discounted
Which is confusing, there's nothing 'novel' about 'Romans'. They're hackneyed, (the entire population), antiquated, and extinct.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Fixed it, my bad.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
In this discussion you evade the music. More on that later.
Is that all? 2 or 3 per album? Sometimes 1 or 0? That is not many per album. That is about the same as on No Prayer (2) and FOTD (1). That is at least as many or more war songs as on/than Iron Maiden, Killers, Beast, Somewhere in Time and SSOASS.
That leaves POM (if we count Sun and Steel*) and Powerslave (if we count Flash if the Blade**).
That is 2 or 1 or 0 album(s) that has 1 more song on war. On the whole decade, or even 1982-1988, that is hardly a difference.
*Sun and Steel is rather about a person, a warrior, namely the samurai Musashi who wrote a book. He fought in wars and duels. So, it depends on how broad we make this.
**Flash of the Blade about war? Nah it is a swordsman song. Illustrates Bruce his love for fencing.
The series might be. But the song is not based on The Prisoner. My point was that it is a different series.
Actually it is. It's simply a matter of opinion.
[..]
As for the rest, mainly music wise, it's as I said before. There's no need to repeat what has been said. You've got your opinion and I've got mine. It is what it is.
This is not a pure opinion vs opinion.
You make a deal about war lyrics but when we count that does not hold well.
You are hardly talking about the "music wise". You're not reacting to the musical aspects I brought in. I see you do not want to talk about this. That makes it difficult when we compare an album (as a whole) with other eras/albums.
I find it an incorrect manner when talking deeper about Maiden content, especially when you initially intended to do so. It lacks substance, moreover, it does not treat our posts as equal in a discussion. You can disagree or not want to talk about certain things. But these are not opinions when they are not uttered.
Yeah, listening to the live B-Side with Blaze on the vocals you'd think it was from The X Factor.
There is a lot of musical continuity between FOTD and TXF. Some examples from the top of my head: BQOBD is much closer in style to Man on the Edge than to any previous "short rocker". It's in the guitar riff and the speed and attitude of the song. The guitar intro in From Here to Eternity already foreshadows what they would do on Lord of the Flies, whereas I can't think of any previous Maiden song that does it this way (sorry, I'm not a musician, I don't know the terminology). Afraid to Shoot Strangers has already been covered. The instrumental section of FOTD is echoed not only, as most people would agree, in Sign of the Cross but also in Fortunes of War. There is a lot more acoustic guitar than one would think on FOTD and it's used to a similar effect as e.g. on 2 AM. It's a similar elegiac flow of melody. The main difference is that it's played somewhat faster on the FOTD songs. But a lot of times, if you went easier on the speed pedal on FOTD, a lot of what you would hear would sound like it came from TXF.
What are the main differences between TXF and FOTD? For one, FOTD is a lot more musically diverse than TXF and I think it's actually the most musically diverse album in the Maiden discography. I say that as an objective statement, not a statement of quality.
Personally, I think it's actually something that hurts the album, because personally, my own personal feeling, not expecting anyone to agree with it or meaning to take away from anyone's enjoyment of FOTD, I very personally prefer albums that have a unified feel to their songs, and that's one of the reasons why TXF is my favourite album, not just by Maiden, but in general. Again, my personal opinion, not saying I think anyone else should feel the same way or meaning it as an attack on anyone's preferences.
So again, FOTD has a great musical variety ranging from thrash-inspired (BQOBD), AOR-inspired (From Here to Eternity, Chains of Misery), power ballad (Wasting Love), genuinely experimental (Fear is the Key, The Apparition, The Fugitive), to more classic hard rock (Weekend Warrior, Judas Be My Guide) and epic ambition (Afraid to Shoot Strangers, Fear of the Dark). TXF doesn't have this experimentation at this scale, but it feeds off a lot of the musical development on FOTD. In other words, it is the product of FOTD's experimentation.
The other main difference is the singer. Yeah, big deal. Bruce on FOTD was not Bruce on any given 80's albums. You hear him ranging from brooding, melodic in the quieter parts to his more classic approach in the high parts. The quiet parts don't sound all that different from Blaze's quieter performances on TXF.
What do we have, then as differences? A more experimental approach to songwriting on FOTD, a loss of speed on TXF and different-sounding vocals in the louder parts.
Oh yeah, and different lyrics. Well, that's nice. Lyrics aren't important, though. You can slap any kind of lyrics on a song and say it's about something different. The underlying music doesn't change. If The Unbeliever had the lyrics of Alexander the Great, it would still be the same song.
EDIT: Removed and clarified some expression of personal opinion
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karljant
Ancient Mariner
My point is that it's a recurring subject during the 80's unlike many others focused in NPFTD and FOTD
They're both about The Fugitive series (as is Back In The Village). The Prisoner was the first one to be released, so thematically it's a reprise. And there's nothing wrong with it.
There's a reason for it. I've already talked about this album music wise and had this conversation before and don't want to repeat myself. If you wish so I'll try to find the post and copy/ paste it alongside some of your questions... but first I have to find it. Nevertheless I'll make a search for it.
Let's get this straight.
The Prisoner and Back in the Village are about the series The Prisoner from 1967 starring Patrick McGoohan.
The Fugitive is about the series The Fugitive, that ran from 1963 to 1967.
We good?
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Thanks for this clarification. I understood it differently.
Hmm, no. (See above post).
I'm afraid it is unavoidable to repeat certain matters at times, at least for me. When it interests me and/or when I read stuff that I do (not) agree with. On top of that, this is not only a discussion for you and me. I also want to tell (show) others how I see comparisons or differences. Some people are new here, and even if not: it is not that terrible to hear something more than once. Besides, I did not do copy paste or something, this feels pretty fresh and Iast but not least: I enjoy reading and talking about this.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Well... wasn't aware of that. Thanx.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I think I hear what you mean. That beginning riff: tatatatatata(etc). Indeed, these open, sort of linear chords. That is also the style of the opening in Lord of the Flies' opening riff.
Also the fast midpiece in ATSS has the same sudden outburst and tempo/feel as in The Aftermath, making it a real sequel, together with the lyrical matter.
Loved reading your whole post. I think you really summed up important differences and connections, album and songwise, in as objective terms as possible.
Here timelinks to the following Wasting Love and 2AM connections:
Riff in Wasting Love (before solo).
Riff in 2AM (during verse)
Solo Wasting Love
Solo 2AM (Janick has used such figures in several solos on later albums as well)
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
May I advise you to get this:
Classic Albums: Iron Maiden – The Number of the Beast - Wikipedia
You'll love it! Bruce even visits the area where The Prisoner series was recorded. Also: the intro speech from the song is from The Prisoner.
This Prisoner connection is also told on 12 Wasted Years and on The Early Days. Do you know these? These are probably by far the most interesting official band history documents, along with the The History of Iron Maiden – Part 2: Live After Death.
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GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Portmeirion. Very beautiful place, well worth a visit!
Portmeirion Village | Holiday Resort North Wales
Portmeirion is an enchanting Italianate style village on the coast of North Wales, ideal for a day out or weekend break for families, couples and more.
portmeirion.wales
The Prisoner TV series is algo worth watching.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
O yes. Already visited it during a vacation in Wales in 2013.Portmeirion. Very beautiful place, well worth a visit!
Portmeirion Village | Holiday Resort North Wales
Portmeirion is an enchanting Italianate style village on the coast of North Wales, ideal for a day out or weekend break for families, couples and more.
The Prisoner TV series is algo worth watching.
(Because of the series which we've seen as well)
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Yup... I've seen it a long time ago. Bruce telling how he was desperate with Birch about the huge amount of times he made him repeat the title track's intro. But I must confess I don't remember The Prisoner part. Maybe because it's not one of my favorite tracks.May I advise you to get this:
View attachment 14139
Classic Albums: Iron Maiden – The Number of the Beast - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
You'll love it! Bruce even visits the area where The Prisoner series was recorded. Also: the intro speech from the song is from The Prisoner.
This Prisoner connection is also told on 12 Wasted Years and on The Early Days. Do you know these? These are probably by far the most interesting official band history documents, along with the The History of Iron Maiden – Part 2: Live After Death.
dickinson1978
Ancient Mariner
the instrumental parts,the solos, all is amazing in this album. BUT its not an album to party or to do headbanging or to make your heart beat faster,to walk outside,or to stay at home relaxed. Thats my thought
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
TXF is a collection of mostly average to good songs let down badly by a weak production and poor performances.
Where even to begin? The guitars are barely audible half the time and have the gain dialled way back so that they sound like something Hank Marvin would approve of. The overhead mics on the drums can be heard clipping (not setting the levels to high on mics is Audio Production 101) and are generally too high in the mix. Everything sounds dry and flat. The only instrument that sounds any good is Steve's bass. Funny that?
Blaze is struggling to hit notes that Bruce could do in his sleep and is out of tune half the time. It's clear Steve just went "take one, that'll do". A far cry from Martin Birch who famously made Bruce sing the intro to NOTB over 100 times to get it right. The fact that the band didn't make any sort of accommodation for his limited range beggars belief. They honestly heard the line "here is the dream" and thought that it was album material?
Also, Nicko doesn't give a fuck and is just putting in the barest effort here.
The album is dull, slow and depressing (as well as sleep inducing). It spawned the trend of long bass intros and outros to lengthy songs. Thanks for that. The B-sides are even more atrocious. I Live My Way is easily the single worst Maiden song.
It's a shame because underneath the bad production and performances there's some good material there. We know this because songs like MOTE, SOTC and LOTF have all been performed far better post-reunion.
The album sounds like a demo and should have been treated as such. If they had used a proper studio and hired a producer things would have worked out different but TXF as it is is comfortably Maiden's worst album.
And yes I would even rate VXI above this as at least that album is more fun to listen to and is mercifully shorter.
Where even to begin? The guitars are barely audible half the time and have the gain dialled way back so that they sound like something Hank Marvin would approve of. The overhead mics on the drums can be heard clipping (not setting the levels to high on mics is Audio Production 101) and are generally too high in the mix. Everything sounds dry and flat. The only instrument that sounds any good is Steve's bass. Funny that?
Blaze is struggling to hit notes that Bruce could do in his sleep and is out of tune half the time. It's clear Steve just went "take one, that'll do". A far cry from Martin Birch who famously made Bruce sing the intro to NOTB over 100 times to get it right. The fact that the band didn't make any sort of accommodation for his limited range beggars belief. They honestly heard the line "here is the dream" and thought that it was album material?
Also, Nicko doesn't give a fuck and is just putting in the barest effort here.
The album is dull, slow and depressing (as well as sleep inducing). It spawned the trend of long bass intros and outros to lengthy songs. Thanks for that. The B-sides are even more atrocious. I Live My Way is easily the single worst Maiden song.
It's a shame because underneath the bad production and performances there's some good material there. We know this because songs like MOTE, SOTC and LOTF have all been performed far better post-reunion.
The album sounds like a demo and should have been treated as such. If they had used a proper studio and hired a producer things would have worked out different but TXF as it is is comfortably Maiden's worst album.
And yes I would even rate VXI above this as at least that album is more fun to listen to and is mercifully shorter.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Huh?? I can give you a lot of your other comments even if I disagree (the guitars sound great if you play the album on the right system and Blaze does a great job with the material IMO), but the drumming is literally one of the highlights of the album and among the best performances of Nicko’s career. So many shades are thrown in, lovely little fills, it just jams so well and I don’t understand comments on him phoning it in.
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Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
I've played TXF on many systems over the years and it sounds bad on all of them, including my current £800 hi-fi setup.
As for Nicko, I stand by my comments. LOTF for example, he doesn't even bother switching cymbals or doing a fill for the chorus. Just the same 4/4 beat for 90% of the song. It sounds half baked. He's much better when he does it live.
____no5
Free Man
Background: Up to now I was ranking VXI always last, due to some ridiculous (in my opinion) moments, such as The Angel & the Gambler repetition, Lightning Strikes chorus, Bailey out of tone here and there plus some low moments on Eyes of Stranger.
Needless to say it's been years that I didn't listen those two, with VXI being the only Maiden album I never bought in any format.
Following the great post from @Spaldy I gave both TXF & VXI a listen.
During TXF I was skipping the songs after 2 minutes and even I couldn't finish the record beyond Aftermath. It's not only the very weak production or Blaze; most compositions & lyrics are boring. The songs are like written for another singer and Blaze cannot deliver.
I agree with some comments above that the album has a uniform sonic signature from start to finish. I appreciate that, but it's not of my taste.
On the other hand, VXI, apart from the above very low moments, plus weak production, is a refreshing, enjoyable listen. I listened from start to finish having only skipped the middle part of The Angel & the Gambler.
Thus I'm revising my ratings, my new worst Maiden ever is TXF.
Needless to say it's been years that I didn't listen those two, with VXI being the only Maiden album I never bought in any format.
Following the great post from @Spaldy I gave both TXF & VXI a listen.
During TXF I was skipping the songs after 2 minutes and even I couldn't finish the record beyond Aftermath. It's not only the very weak production or Blaze; most compositions & lyrics are boring. The songs are like written for another singer and Blaze cannot deliver.
I agree with some comments above that the album has a uniform sonic signature from start to finish. I appreciate that, but it's not of my taste.
On the other hand, VXI, apart from the above very low moments, plus weak production, is a refreshing, enjoyable listen. I listened from start to finish having only skipped the middle part of The Angel & the Gambler.
Thus I'm revising my ratings, my new worst Maiden ever is TXF.