The Problem with the X-Factor?

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
[..] I'll only answer to more factual stuff on your last post.
In this discussion you evade the music. More on that later.
Invasion, Genghis Khan, Invaders, Run To The Hills, Where Eagles Dare, The Trooper, Sun And Steel, Aces High, 2 Minutes To Midnight, Flash Of The Blade, Alexander The Great... there are plenty IMO.
Is that all? 2 or 3 per album? Sometimes 1 or 0? That is not many per album. That is about the same as on No Prayer (2) and FOTD (1). That is at least as many or more war songs as on/than Iron Maiden, Killers, Beast, Somewhere in Time and SSOASS.
That leaves POM (if we count Sun and Steel*) and Powerslave (if we count Flash if the Blade**).
That is 2 or 1 or 0 album(s) that has 1 more song on war. On the whole decade, or even 1982-1988, that is hardly a difference.

*Sun and Steel is rather about a person, a warrior, namely the samurai Musashi who wrote a book. He fought in wars and duels. So, it depends on how broad we make this.

**Flash of the Blade about war? Nah it is a swordsman song. Illustrates Bruce his love for fencing.

That's precisely the series that The Prisoner is all about. So yeah... a Prisoner reprise.
The series might be. But the song is not based on The Prisoner. My point was that it is a different series.

Actually it is. It's simply a matter of opinion.
[..]
As for the rest, mainly music wise, it's as I said before. There's no need to repeat what has been said. You've got your opinion and I've got mine. It is what it is. :ok:

This is not a pure opinion vs opinion.

You make a deal about war lyrics but when we count that does not hold well.

You are hardly talking about the "music wise". You're not reacting to the musical aspects I brought in. I see you do not want to talk about this. That makes it difficult when we compare an album (as a whole) with other eras/albums.

I find it an incorrect manner when talking deeper about Maiden content, especially when you initially intended to do so. It lacks substance, moreover, it does not treat our posts as equal in a discussion. You can disagree or not want to talk about certain things. But these are not opinions when they are not uttered.
 

Perun

In the labyrinth of eternity
Staff member
Yeah, I get a very TXF vibe from it. The type of buildup and musical atmosphere is to me, a quissential X factor feature.

Yeah, listening to the live B-Side with Blaze on the vocals you'd think it was from The X Factor.

There is a lot of musical continuity between FOTD and TXF. Some examples from the top of my head: BQOBD is much closer in style to Man on the Edge than to any previous "short rocker". It's in the guitar riff and the speed and attitude of the song. The guitar intro in From Here to Eternity already foreshadows what they would do on Lord of the Flies, whereas I can't think of any previous Maiden song that does it this way (sorry, I'm not a musician, I don't know the terminology). Afraid to Shoot Strangers has already been covered. The instrumental section of FOTD is echoed not only, as most people would agree, in Sign of the Cross but also in Fortunes of War. There is a lot more acoustic guitar than one would think on FOTD and it's used to a similar effect as e.g. on 2 AM. It's a similar elegiac flow of melody. The main difference is that it's played somewhat faster on the FOTD songs. But a lot of times, if you went easier on the speed pedal on FOTD, a lot of what you would hear would sound like it came from TXF.

What are the main differences between TXF and FOTD? For one, FOTD is a lot more musically diverse than TXF and I think it's actually the most musically diverse album in the Maiden discography. I say that as an objective statement, not a statement of quality.
Personally, I think it's actually something that hurts the album, because personally, my own personal feeling, not expecting anyone to agree with it or meaning to take away from anyone's enjoyment of FOTD, I very personally prefer albums that have a unified feel to their songs, and that's one of the reasons why TXF is my favourite album, not just by Maiden, but in general. Again, my personal opinion, not saying I think anyone else should feel the same way or meaning it as an attack on anyone's preferences.

So again, FOTD has a great musical variety ranging from thrash-inspired (BQOBD), AOR-inspired (From Here to Eternity, Chains of Misery), power ballad (Wasting Love), genuinely experimental (Fear is the Key, The Apparition, The Fugitive), to more classic hard rock (Weekend Warrior, Judas Be My Guide) and epic ambition (Afraid to Shoot Strangers, Fear of the Dark). TXF doesn't have this experimentation at this scale, but it feeds off a lot of the musical development on FOTD. In other words, it is the product of FOTD's experimentation.

The other main difference is the singer. Yeah, big deal. Bruce on FOTD was not Bruce on any given 80's albums. You hear him ranging from brooding, melodic in the quieter parts to his more classic approach in the high parts. The quiet parts don't sound all that different from Blaze's quieter performances on TXF.

What do we have, then as differences? A more experimental approach to songwriting on FOTD, a loss of speed on TXF and different-sounding vocals in the louder parts.

Oh yeah, and different lyrics. Well, that's nice. Lyrics aren't important, though. You can slap any kind of lyrics on a song and say it's about something different. The underlying music doesn't change. If The Unbeliever had the lyrics of Alexander the Great, it would still be the same song.


EDIT: Removed and clarified some expression of personal opinion
 
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karljant

Ancient Mariner
That is 2 or 1 or 0 album(s) that has 1 more song on war. On the whole decade, or even 1982-1988, that is hardly a difference.
My point is that it's a recurring subject during the 80's unlike many others focused in NPFTD and FOTD

The series might be. But the song is not based on The Prisoner. My point was that it is a different series.
They're both about The Fugitive series (as is Back In The Village). The Prisoner was the first one to be released, so thematically it's a reprise. And there's nothing wrong with it.

You are hardly talking about the "music wise". You're not reacting to the musical aspects I brought in.
There's a reason for it. I've already talked about this album music wise and had this conversation before and don't want to repeat myself. If you wish so I'll try to find the post and copy/ paste it alongside some of your questions... but first I have to find it. Nevertheless I'll make a search for it.
 

Perun

In the labyrinth of eternity
Staff member
They're both about The Fugitive series (as is Back In The Village). The Prisoner was the first one to be released, so thematically it's a reprise. And there's nothing wrong with it.

Let's get this straight.

The Prisoner and Back in the Village are about the series The Prisoner from 1967 starring Patrick McGoohan.
The Fugitive is about the series The Fugitive, that ran from 1963 to 1967.

We good?
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
My point is that it's a recurring subject during the 80's unlike many others focused in NPFTD and FOTD
Thanks for this clarification. I understood it differently.
They're both about The Fugitive series (as is Back In The Village). The Prisoner was the first one to be released, so thematically it's a reprise.
Hmm, no. (See above post).
There's a reason for it. I've already talked about this album music wise and had this conversation before and don't want to repeat myself. If you wish so I'll try to find the post and copy/ paste it alongside some of your questions... but first I have to find it. Nevertheless I'll make a search for it.
I'm afraid it is unavoidable to repeat certain matters at times, at least for me. When it interests me and/or when I read stuff that I do (not) agree with. On top of that, this is not only a discussion for you and me. I also want to tell (show) others how I see comparisons or differences. Some people are new here, and even if not: it is not that terrible to hear something more than once. Besides, I did not do copy paste or something, this feels pretty fresh and Iast but not least: I enjoy reading and talking about this.
 

karljant

Ancient Mariner
Let's get this straight.

The Prisoner and Back in the Village are about the series The Prisoner from 1967 starring Patrick McGoohan.
The Fugitive is about the series The Fugitive, that ran from 1963 to 1967.

We good?
Well... wasn't aware of that. Thanx.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Yeah, listening to the live B-Side with Blaze on the vocals you'd think it was from The X Factor.

There is a lot of musical continuity between FOTD and TXF. Some examples from the top of my head: BQOBD is much closer in style to Man on the Edge than to any previous "short rocker". It's in the guitar riff and the speed and attitude of the song. The guitar intro in From Here to Eternity already foreshadows what they would do on Lord of the Flies, whereas I can't think of any previous Maiden song that does it this way (sorry, I'm not a musician, I don't know the terminology).
I think I hear what you mean. That beginning riff: tatatatatata(etc). Indeed, these open, sort of linear chords. That is also the style of the opening in Lord of the Flies' opening riff.

Afraid to Shoot Strangers has already been covered.
Also the fast midpiece in ATSS has the same sudden outburst and tempo/feel as in The Aftermath, making it a real sequel, together with the lyrical matter.

Loved reading your whole post. I think you really summed up important differences and connections, album and songwise, in as objective terms as possible.

Here timelinks to the following Wasting Love and 2AM connections:

Riff in Wasting Love (before solo).
Riff in 2AM (during verse)
Solo Wasting Love
Solo 2AM (Janick has used such figures in several solos on later albums as well)
 
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Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Well... wasn't aware of that. Thanx.
May I advise you to get this:
1616674421791.png

You'll love it! Bruce even visits the area where The Prisoner series was recorded. Also: the intro speech from the song is from The Prisoner.
This Prisoner connection is also told on 12 Wasted Years and on The Early Days. Do you know these? These are probably by far the most interesting official band history documents, along with the The History of Iron Maiden – Part 2: Live After Death.
 
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GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
You'll love it! Bruce even visits the area where The Prisoner series was recorded. Also: the intro speech from the song is from The Prisoner.
This Prisoner connection is also told on 12 Wasted Years and on The Early Days. Do you know these? These are probably by far the most interesting official band history documents, along with the The History of Iron Maiden – Part 2: Live After Death.

Portmeirion. Very beautiful place, well worth a visit!


The Prisoner TV series is algo worth watching.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Portmeirion. Very beautiful place, well worth a visit!


The Prisoner TV series is algo worth watching.
O yes. Already visited it during a vacation in Wales in 2013. :) (Because of the series which we've seen as well)
 

karljant

Ancient Mariner
May I advise you to get this:
View attachment 14139

You'll love it! Bruce even visits the area where The Prisoner series was recorded. Also: the intro speech from the song is from The Prisoner.
This Prisoner connection is also told on 12 Wasted Years and on The Early Days. Do you know these? These are probably by far the most interesting official band history documents, along with the The History of Iron Maiden – Part 2: Live After Death.
Yup... I've seen it a long time ago. Bruce telling how he was desperate with Birch about the huge amount of times he made him repeat the title track's intro. But I must confess I don't remember The Prisoner part. Maybe because it's not one of my favorite tracks.
 
the instrumental parts,the solos, all is amazing in this album. BUT its not an album to party or to do headbanging or to make your heart beat faster,to walk outside,or to stay at home relaxed. Thats my thought
 
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