The Problem with the X-Factor?

[Deleted member 7164]

There's really two camps here - those who appreciate Steve's vision and those who don't.

Ain't that a bit of over generalization?

The album's got problems, you can shun them, they still remain. I won't repeat myself here - about production - the situation is crystal clear with Maiden who always wanted to keep the live energy in the studio - compare it to live soundboards and see where it fails for yourself.

As much as I like all tracks, the Unbeliever feels shallow until it hits the mid section. The dry sound of the album is not what that song needs. The verses sound like a demo. Judgement Day would be a Painkiller level track if it had concise lyrics about something, I can't see why they choose to put Look for the Truth, although I like that track and feel a nostalgic connection to it, it did the album no favours.

Then you get to the development of epics, which is OK but not quite there yet. The out of place, just on/off approached, fast section of Fortunes of War, for example. Stuff like this has been perfected in the years to come, parts on AMOLAD for instances seem cohesive compared to this (like double time switch after BTATS first solo).

Then you get to the Blaze's voice, which is good, correct, fit for the album, but it's nowhere near exciting as anything Bruce or Paul have done. The vocals mostly ramble along the verses, listener is caught via some good lyrics, but vocal delivery is not the catch here.

Then you get to the absolute lack of bonkers energy on the album, underutilization of Gers and everything. Three albums in, there is no trace of exciting breakdown like on No Prayer For The Dying's title track, which was his first.

This album is doom and gloom all the way, with occasional contrasting moment that just emphasizes the depressive bulk of the album.

It didn't need to feel like that - check out live Fortunes of War, or Blood on the World's hands, they're dark and powerful, really modern sounding especially the breakdown of the latter.

The album's production is a mistake. These mistakes have been put to table and rectified in 1999. That's why we know they're mistake. I'm really glad that you all like the sound of it, I certainly don't mind it, but it's not good. Just like IM1 is not good, regardless of how fit it feels.

 

[Jer]

There's really two camps here - those who appreciate Steve's vision and those who don't.

Blaze’s chronically off-pitch vocal performance would be offputting to many people completely independently of whether they were into Steve’s vision for the album or not.

 

[gazda]

Also, X Factor is first album were they dropped idea of forcing some radio friendly songs to gain more fans, and
album without filler songs.

X Factor, IM, TNOTB and BNW are most important albums in Maiden history.

 

[karljant]

X Factor, IM, TNOTB and BNW are most important albums in Maiden history.

I don't think they're the best records... but indeed I've no doubt they're the most important when it comes to the development (and in some cases continuity/ survival) of the band's sound evolution. Must admit you nailed it 100% on this one.

 

[Gk1]

Say what you will guys. This is just embarrassing, even live

From the lack of energy for the most part, the simplistic and repetitive ( well, what do you know) guitar chords, the middle of the road lyrics, the reuse of the ATSS melody in the beggining and the wasting love lick on the faster part. Ok, I understand that some people might like this son but clearly this half baked as hell. Dear Lord, Blaze does not even when it is his turn to sing during the slow part.

 

[karljant]

"What you will guys".

 

[Gk1]

"What you will guys".

haha, got my queues from Steve's lyrics there!!!

 

[Black Abyss Babe]

Martin Birch who famously made Bruce sing the intro to NOTB over 100 times to get it right.

I thought they eventually concluded that the purpose of this exercise had been to wind Bruce up on purpose, so he could do "the scream" convincingly?

 

[JudasMyGuide]

It's usually Team Steve vs Team Bruce or Team Classics vs Team Everything.

As usual, I'm left wondering what team I belong to


As for the discussion itself, well, it's a sorrowful, introspective album about depression, personal problems, damnation and deliverance, with mood oscillating mostly between brooding and downright bleak... and without Mr Air-Raid Siren. One of the most unique albums they ever put out.

So yes, it has a problem. The vox populi problem.

I believe I have read (somewhere) even the argument that it's bad because of Maiden's lackluster numbers in both sales and concert attendance in the US. As if that is supposed to prove anything.

Indeed, the US metal audience that first got hell-bent for Every Rose Has Its Thorn



and then histrionic, redneck dudebros who demanded Re-SPECT! (oya to'kin to meyah???)




disliked it, so it must be bad, see?



However, IIRC, 'Arry never turned his back on the album and is still proud of it. That's how it should be. It's not your "party Maiden" album. It's your "sitting in the darkened room after all your efforts have resulted in absolutely nothing, watching the lone candle as it slowly goes out."

Maiden have always been a tad formulaic and this is actually one of the greatest efforts to break the formula at least a little bit.

And thank God they actually had Blaze (the broken, mysterious, veiled storyteller) for it and not Bruce. With his pirouettes and belting, half of the atmosphere would have been completely lost.


On the other hand, even I'm willing to admit that the production has issues (although I wonder if it would feel as personal as it does now) and that some of the songs could have stayed in the oven a little bit more. Still doesn't discourage me for having it somewhere in my top 3-4 Maiden albums... pretty much all the time.

 

[____no5]

Have't read the entire thread, but regarding summer 2021 posts there's no Steve vs Bruce. Team Classics maybe but criticism comes from people that appreciate the current era too, so it's not that either. It's about production, Blaze's performance /song-writing.

I'm not arguing about Silicon Messiah. It's a brilliant, brilliant album, so it's not about Blaze too. He could have done so much better in Maiden under a different song-writing /production approach.

 

[karljant]

there's no Steve vs Bruce.

Yeah... I pretty much agree on this one. But one never knows... perhaps it exists (but even so it isn't that evident on the forum).

Team Classics maybe

Nah... there's definitively some divide here ( @Magnus and others called to the reception - you know who you are ).

It's about production

IMO there's nothing blatantly wrong with it. But hey: to each his own.

Blaze's performance

Here I must agree. Blaze's performance is subpar at best (but man did the guy grew immensely as a singer throughout the years past his departure from the band).

song-writing

Love all the songs he wrote for the X Factor... plus Judgement Day (hell of a tune).

I'm not arguing about Silicon Messiah. It's a brilliant, brilliant album

See? IMO Silicon Messiah is absolutely devoid of interest. Basically it comes down to personal taste

... and since I mentioned it let's be true to ourselves regarding this thread. Perhaps besides Blaze's somewhat uninspired vocals everything else comes to a matter of TASTE. And even regarding Blaze's singing there are people that don't mind him being out of key here and there since they think his voice really fits the dire ambiance of the record.. Well while I don't agree with them I can see where they're coming from (so even this is somewhat a matter of personal taste). I really like TXF overall dark feel to it, long and immersive songs and pretty much prefer its production to some of Birch's excessively clean sounding albums from the 80's such as TNOTB, POM, Powerslave (Killers, LAD, SIT and SSOASS - my favorite Maiden production to this day are other completely different story though). So yeah... Long story short: what's wrong with The X Factor? Nothing. It's a somewhat polarizing album? Yup. But using the word "wrong"? As an example my least favorite Maiden album is Fear Of The Dark. I pretty much dislike almost half of the record. But what's wrong with it? Nothing. The boys tried other venues that I simply dislike and that's exactly the same thing that happened with TXF for other people. Some fans love it, some hate it while some other kinda like it. And that's all that it is. Hey... there are 15 other maiden albums to listen to if you're not into TXF (and fortunately soon there will be one more).

 

[karljant]

Indeed, the US metal audience that first got hell-bent for Every Rose Has Its Thorn

and then histrionic, redneck dudebros who demanded Re-SPECT! (oya to'kin to meyah???)

Well spotted ehehehhh. The 90's were a hell of a revolving crossover mesh when it came to heavier rock (not that's a bad thing quite the opposite). IMO the only bad thing is the outcome on the latter years of the decade with Nu-Metal reigning supreme. But hey... even that reign was kind of short (while it seemed like centuries to me).

PS: I like me some Pantera but Walk and a handful others from the guys truly suck.

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

I think The X Factor is one of Maiden's best albums, and it ranks #5 in my personal Maiden album ranking list.
I understand everyone who does not like the album, because it is Maiden's most left field album, completely different from everything they did before. But that's a matter of taste and expectations, not of the album itself.
Calling Blaze the problem of this album just shows lack of musical knowledge and ignorance. He was a fitting choice for this album (not for Maiden as a whole, but for this album).
I think the main problem with this album was the odd production, handled by Steve himself, who simply was not up to the job. The guitars are way too thin and too low in the mix. There are almost no double lead melodies, which had been a trademark of Maiden up to that point. I still wonder why they did not do them. There would have been plenty of opportunities.
It is also the first Maiden album to feature almost no harmony vocals at all. Maybe it was a reaction to Grunge, who made harmony vocals look "uncool", I don't know. Blaze was standing way up in the mix, completely dry without reverb and without mic compression, in front of underpoduced guitars. Of course he sounded a bit pale. Bruce always got reverb, always got compression, always had the perfext position in the mix.
It was like putting a naked man next to a soldier in uniform and telling him: "now look as impressive as this soldier". In other words: completely unfair.
In conclusion, X Factor's production value was demo level compared to the level of 7th Son or Powerslave production quality.
I think these are the main reasons why the album bombed.
The songs as such are mostly awesome and feature some very awesome tracks. Sure, there are some fillers as well, but every Maiden album, even the super classics, each have at least one filler.

 

[Maturin]

I think The X Factor is one of Maiden's best albums, and it ranks #5 in my personal Maiden album ranking list.
I understand everyone who does not like the album, because it is Maiden's most left field album, completely different from everything they did before. But that's a matter of taste and expectations, not of the album itself.
Calling Blaze the problem of this album just shows lack of musical knowledge and ignorance. He was a fitting choice for this album (not for Maiden as a whole, but for this album).
I think the main problem with this album was the odd production, handled by Steve himself, who simply was not up to the job. The guitars are way too thin and too low in the mix. There are almost no double lead melodies, which had been a trademark of Maiden up to that point. I still wonder why they did not do them. There would have been plenty of opportunities.
It is also the first Maiden album to feature almost no harmony vocals at all. Maybe it was a reaction to Grunge, who made harmony vocals look "uncool", I don't know. Blaze was standing way up in the mix, completely dry without reverb and without mic compression, in front of underpoduced guitars. Of course he sounded a bit pale. Bruce always got reverb, always got compression, always had the perfext position in the mix.
It was like putting a naked man next to a soldier in uniform and telling him: "now look as impressive as this soldier". In other words: completely unfair.
In conclusion, X Factor's production value was demo level compared to the level of 7th Son or Powerslave production quality.
I think these are the main reasons why the album bombed.
The songs as such are mostly awesome and feature some very awesome tracks. Sure, there are some fillers as well, but every Maiden album, even the super classics, each have at least one filler.

Your points are valid and well-put. Especially regarding Blaze's vocal production and space in the mix - listen to how crazy good he sounds when Sneap produced him!

But regarding the guitars and drums my very personal opinion is that they have never sounded better on a Maiden album. I strongly dislike the way Martin Birch produced guitars (firmly set in his 1970's ways, severely out of date with his 1980's contemporaries like Michael Wagener and Beau Hill) and side with Shirley every time.

The mix on this album... I love it, with the exception of the vocals. The separation between the instruments; the note-for-note clarity on the guitars (while still not overpowering the bass anywhere); the super clear and center-stage drumming of Nicko.

I like to play people the harmony from "Judgement of Heaven", just after the solo. Nowhere on a Maiden-album can you hear Nicko's and Steve's work better than there, all the while supporting a great harmony by Dave and Janick. Quintessential Maiden, and never had it sounded better.

 

[Mosh]

I agree with most of that, I would just add that a proper producer would have gotten a better performance out of Blaze as well. I agree the dry production doesn’t do him any favors, but I also have heard him put in better studio performances. If you took his Silicon Messiah vocals and applied X Factor production to the album, it would still be a better sounding Blaze performance imo.

 

[Kalata]

I think The X Factor is one of Maiden's best albums, and it ranks #5 in my personal Maiden album ranking list.
I understand everyone who does not like the album, because it is Maiden's most left field album, completely different from everything they did before. But that's a matter of taste and expectations, not of the album itself.
Calling Blaze the problem of this album just shows lack of musical knowledge and ignorance. He was a fitting choice for this album (not for Maiden as a whole, but for this album).
I think the main problem with this album was the odd production, handled by Steve himself, who simply was not up to the job. The guitars are way too thin and too low in the mix. There are almost no double lead melodies, which had been a trademark of Maiden up to that point. I still wonder why they did not do them. There would have been plenty of opportunities.
It is also the first Maiden album to feature almost no harmony vocals at all. Maybe it was a reaction to Grunge, who made harmony vocals look "uncool", I don't know. Blaze was standing way up in the mix, completely dry without reverb and without mic compression, in front of underpoduced guitars. Of course he sounded a bit pale. Bruce always got reverb, always got compression, always had the perfext position in the mix.
It was like putting a naked man next to a soldier in uniform and telling him: "now look as impressive as this soldier". In other words: completely unfair.
In conclusion, X Factor's production value was demo level compared to the level of 7th Son or Powerslave production quality.
I think these are the main reasons why the album bombed.
The songs as such are mostly awesome and feature some very awesome tracks. Sure, there are some fillers as well, but every Maiden album, even the super classics, each have at least one filler.

I don't think the production played a role with TXF, like it wasn't with the debut. I'm not saying it's for everyone because it's so different (lower mix and layers) than the past productions, the overall dark mood too, but it's not sounding like a demo, at least to me. The issues were Blaze's voice (which improved after his time in Maiden), the different songwriting approach (definitely, the songs, the length, the intros, the pace), the mood and probably/maybe the lack of harmonies and harmony vocals. Agreed about the songs, for me the album has no fillers. Maybe one, the material is balanced, weaker is sometimes subjective. Definitely a unique album.

Steve said that the TXF style is what they would have probably done after SSOASS if it wasn't for the stripped down approach. A very important album for the band. It couldn't have been successful at the time, no matter what.

But regarding the guitars and drums my very personal opinion is that they have never sounded better on a Maiden album. I strongly dislike the way Martin Birch produced guitars (firmly set in his 1970's ways, severely out of date with his 1980's contemporaries like Michael Wagener and Beau Hill) and side with Shirley every time.
The mix on this album... I love it, with the exception of the vocals. The separation between the instruments; the note-for-note clarity on the guitars (while still not overpowering the bass anywhere); the super clear and center-stage drumming of Nicko.
I like to play people the harmony from "Judgement of Heaven", just after the solo. Nowhere on a Maiden-album can you hear Nicko's and Steve's work better than there, all the while supporting a great harmony by Dave and Janick. Quintessential Maiden, and never had it sounded better.

TXF production is so fitting for the album. The guitars and drums are better than NPFTD. I like them a lot. It's a clear (the rough riffs!) and open mix, which is rare. Even unique. Your example with the bass (especially!) and drums in Judgement Of Heaven is so spot on. The production is far from bad and it's pretty good for me. The only issue is that the calm parts are too quiet.

 

[Eddie's Uncle]

Most of your assessment of the production is personal taste/preference, which of course is fine, and can not be debated. On that level, I even agree with you: the sound is very fitting for the album, and I also like the drums a lot, which are louder and more aggressive than on previous albums. However, you are partly mixing up taste with neutral, measurable facts. Fact is, that the guitars on this album are considerably lower in the mix than on any other Maiden album up to that point. There is also less distortion in the rhythm guitars, which sound more like rock guitars instead of metal. Fact is also that the vocals are more upfront and are less edited with reverb and dynamic procession than on any Maiden recordings with Bruce. That's not a matter of opinion, it's measurable. The consequence is that Blaze's vocals are way more isolated than Bruce's on previous records. Of course this results in in minor flaws being way more audible.
One may like or dislike these facts. You like them, so do I. But I understand that many people don't, and I am sure that if the album had been produced by Martin Birch, it would have a better reception with fans and Blaze would have faced less criticism. Add to this he darker mood and the strange absence of twin harmonies, you get an album that sounds unfinished and more like a demo or pre-production, which puts many people off. I usually like demos and sometimes prefer them over albums, so I have zero problems with the X Factor, but most people hink differently.

 

[Spaldy]

TXF has some great songs. This is backed up by knowing how strong some of them sound live when performed by both Maiden and Blaze respectively. Sign of the Cross might be the highlight of Rock in Rio.

The problem is how lifeless and flat they are on the album itself. Held back by inconsistent performances and a poor sound, none of the songs get a chance to truly shine. The bizarre decision to cut some of the more energetic numbers like Judgement Day means that we're left with a slow, plodding album where the songs all seem to blend in and out of one another (due in part to them all having slow bass intros).

And I vehemently reject the above argument that it sounds better than the albums of the Martin Birch era. That's a ludicrous claim.

It's a chore to get through and is probably the album I listen to the least (unless I'm looking to catch a snooze). Boring, dull and depressing.

In hindsight, it's the best thing they could have done as it paved the way for the eventual reunion. At the time though it was a very poor creative effort.

That being said, I doubt much would have changed had they chosen a "Bruce-lite" frontman and brought in a better producer (with a more fan pleasing set of songs). After all, look at Priest during the Ripper era. Great singer and solid production work didn't help them and the fans were still clamouring for Halford to return. Bruce and H were always going to come back no matter what.

I'll listen to Sign of the Cross live any day but the album itself is a huge turn-off for me.

 

[dickinson1978]

Your points are valid and well-put. Especially regarding Blaze's vocal production and space in the mix - listen to how crazy good he sounds when Sneap produced him!

But regarding the guitars and drums my very personal opinion is that they have never sounded better on a Maiden album. I strongly dislike the way Martin Birch produced guitars (firmly set in his 1970's ways, severely out of date with his 1980's contemporaries like Michael Wagener and Beau Hill) and side with Shirley every time.

The mix on this album... I love it, with the exception of the vocals. The separation between the instruments; the note-for-note clarity on the guitars (while still not overpowering the bass anywhere); the super clear and center-stage drumming of Nicko.

I like to play people the harmony from "Judgement of Heaven", just after the solo. Nowhere on a Maiden-album can you hear Nicko's and Steve's work better than there, all the while supporting a great harmony by Dave and Janick. Quintessential Maiden, and never had it sounded better.

Great album, love the dark and depressive vibe. And the production i think its the most clean album since seventh son