The Pope is dope

Vestiges such as? There's a huge difference between barely tolerating something or not paying attention to it.
Liberal? That's how I know Catholicism in the Netherlands. Public and liberal. And tolerance for everybody who studies there. StFX is a Catholic University and apparently it is a pretty good one.

StFX is an excellent university, but it is not a Catholic university. A Catholic name does not a Catholic school make. I guess you just ignored the part where I said it's a publicly funded institution. In Nova Scotia, no religious education institution can receive public funding. StFX had to remove their Catholic ties in order to receive public funding - I am not 100% sure, but I believe the continued residence of several retired members of the Catholic faculty from this changeover is funded by the local diocese. Trust me. It is not a Catholic school. I went there. I lived on campus for 5 years. I am well aware of the difference.

I have already explained the vestiges, but I'll do it again, in hopes it becomes more apparent this time. StFX does indeed have a Catholic heritage. It was originally founded with the help of the local Church. This control changed in the 1970s as secularization became an important part of continuing education in Canada, removing the Church from all operational control and influence. Since then, we have only a few remnants of Catholicism in the school. One is that some retired members of faculty who were employed by the Roman Catholic Church still live at StFX. Another is that they like to put crosses on new buildings to maintain a consistent look. Some buildings are named after members of the church - and have been since the 60s. There are a couple student groups that identify as Catholic, but they are not officially run by the university - the exact opposite, as their strength rises and falls with the strength of student leaders. These are minor vestiges that have no official role.

But the president of StFX is not Catholic. There are no members of the Roman Catholic Church on the executive, and I think one retired professor in the Senate. The leadership of the school is not a Catholic organization. Priests and nuns and monks do not teach. There is no requirement to go to church. No student is required to pray, give thanks, or take communion. Many students practice other religions and the University punishes people who discriminate against any religion. The campus chapel is non-denominational and can be used for any sort of religious service. At no point during the application or education or graduation process did anyone ask me if I am a Catholic. I was not required to provide proof of confirmation to attend. It is not a Catholic school, and simply by looking at a name and pointing, you cannot make it so. You do not get to move goalposts or alter facts to suit your desired outcome, not on this one.

This gives me an idea of a town with a population fearing the Church. To a certain extent, it's like Poland. Or even worse.

Are you talking about the people who are loyal Catholics, or those of us who are not? I can assure you that as an atheist member of this highly religious community, I fear the influence of the Catholic Church. It has limited my advancement opportunities, health care options, and made it difficult to engage in the harmless hobbies I enjoy. But the local Catholics? mate, they love it. They're not afraid, they're willing participants. This isn't a town that fears the Church - it is a town that loves it.

Who do you mean when you speak of Catholics? The rulers? The ones in robes? Do you really think none of the students or teachers are Catholic? Perhaps they are not raving that much about it (certainly not since the scandals!), or taking part in vestiges, but that doesn't mean they are not Catholic.

There's lots of people who follow the Catholic religion at StFX. I have no problem with people who worship Catholic but think on their own and ascribe to strong humanist principles. The point I was attempting to make, the point lost, I suppose, is that most people who go to a Catholic Church in this town use Official Catholic Values as their own. They dislike gay people, people who use contraception, they dislike sex education, they dislike the idea of divorce, they dislike a hell of a lot of things as told from the pulpit. So, yes, I have no problem if a person calls themselves Catholic but behaves like a civilized, progressive human being. The thing is that most Catholics that I know, openly worshipful Catholics, don't. Most Catholic priests I know don't. priests have no power. So yes, I blame the average Catholic who stays silent when a priest says my friend Natalie can never have a real marriage, or I blame the average Catholic who keeps going to Church and paying into a diocese that has admitted to knowingly harbouring and protecting sex offenders, and allowing them space and confidentiality with which to reoffend. That's power given to the priests too, and they fucking know it.

So, when I talk about Catholics here, I mean people who are Catholic and don't try to change the Church but are happy with the vileness and hatred that burbles from within. Priests, Bishops, and laypersons.

I wonder how you would like your university if it were a Baptist one.

Since my university is a public, secular, non-religious school, this question doesn't really apply. I would have attended neither a Catholic nor a Baptist institution.

Reading all this, I am not sure if "the Catholics" are the problem. Father Paul was not the problem. He is a Catholic. I feel you are generalizing way too much. The Catholics who have the power are the problem. If they let the reigns a bit looser, the population dares to be more free as well.

The population isn't being forced to go. They like it. They give the priests the power, and they do so happily and willingly. A priest with an empty church is powerless. Paul felt the same way - he talked about youth voting with their feet, because why would they go to a church that is against the values of the young? If the average person who found himself at some odds with the Church left (as many have, but not enough, not nearly enough) then the Church would lose it's power. Yes, I blame the priests who manipulate, but I also blame the person who enables. It's a cycle. Neither the priest nor the worshiper are more or less at fault. It is a system that encourages indoctrination and obedience from a young age to reward a priesthood that then encourages indoctrination - no different in action than the Communist Party in a Warsaw Pact state, if different in ability to execute. But that's what the Church wants. Kids who show up and are loyal and listen, even if they don't always follow. It's a vicious, brutal cycle.

Speaking of power, that's exactly why I am glad that we're having a different Pope in Rome. He will have a hard time with Antigonish if he wants to change matters, that's for sure. I already heard that North American bishops are the ones having the most problems with the new Pope. The Pope is more progressive than these guys. And that's what needed if we crave for change.

Well, yes, he will, if he ever changes anything at all and isn't all talk. But I bet the bishops in places like Mexico, Africa, and southeastern Europe will be even more resistant. Look at the gay marriage amendment that just passed in Croatia (I think?) - that was with the full backing of the Catholic Church. They're winning there and the new Pope is talking about pulling back. They'll give the real pushback. The guys in North America just get more press because they live near the news outlets, and they have to be louder. They're losing.
 
Cheers for all this extra info.

I thought that King's College in Halifax remained under the control of the Church of England, but again I could be misinformed. Also not publicly funded then?

Would you give me some more background (links?) on the following topics? I was trying to find it myself but didn't succeed as of yet. Thank you:
In Nova Scotia, no religious education institution can receive public funding.
+
StFX had to remove their Catholic ties in order to receive public funding.
 
Cheers for all this extra info.

I thought that King's College in Halifax remained under the control of the Church of England, but again I could be misinformed. Also not publicly funded then?

Would you give me some more background (links?) on the following topics? I was trying to find it myself but didn't succeed as of yet. Thank you:

No, I can't give you background links on those subjects, because it's not codified - much like a lot of Canadian constitutional law. UKC doesn't receive funding from the province - it receives funding through Dalhousie, which counts its students as their own then distributed funding. It's a dodge meant to get around religious restrictions.

Even if UKC receives public funding through several removes, it doesn't alter the fact that StFX is no longer a Catholic institution. It is a secular institution with a Catholic heritage - an entirely different beast.
 
No, I can't give you background links on those subjects, because it's not codified - much like a lot of Canadian constitutional law. UKC doesn't receive funding from the province - it receives funding through Dalhousie, which counts its students as their own then distributed funding. It's a dodge meant to get around religious restrictions.

Even if UKC receives public funding through several removes, it doesn't alter the fact that StFX is no longer a Catholic institution. It is a secular institution with a Catholic heritage - an entirely different beast.
Alright. Any news article on the changes (dismissing bonds with the Catholic Church) is still welcome though. I mean you know about it, so surely someone must have written about it? I find it odd that StFX keeps saying on their site that they have

"...grown into a renowned institution that works hard to maintain the qualities it was founded on. We’ve seen numerous changes—changes in faculty, changes in the student body, changes in our academic programs. But, while most of Canada's smaller universities have either abandoned their roots or consolidated into larger institutions, we’ve vigorously maintained our autonomy, guarded our character, and upheld the same traditions of freedom and service that inspired the men and women stepping onto the eastern Nova Scotian shores a century and a half ago. At StFX, we’re excited about where we’re headed. But we also like to remember where we came from."
Apologies for the double post, but I didn't feel like playing the editing game. Does this mean you've accepted the previous information and corrections?
I have accepted everything you explained and I learned a lot about your situation/town.

But I don't condemn the Catholic Church as a whole because I have known better (more tolerant) priests. That's what I like to hang on to. I know how it can be done. Even if the "good guys" are in the minority, worldwide, I don't want to oppose them. I want them to multiply. I want them to replace the diehard conservatists. It happened here, and I don't know why it could not happen elsewhere, even if it takes 50-100 years.
Also I demand not so much as you from the Catholic Church in a short period of time. As you've said, it's a huge institution. Marrying in the Catholic Church is not realistic, now. It cannot be the first step. The first thing the church needs to do is stopping with discriminating gays. The way the Pope spoke about this issue was revolutionary and I am surprised that this was not received with the slightest satisfaction.

Well, at least our differences of opinions keep this topic alive. ;)
 
Alright. Any news article on the changes (dismissing bonds with the Catholic Church) is still welcome though. I mean you know about it, so surely someone must have written about it? I find it odd that StFX keeps saying on their site that they have

"...grown into a renowned institution that works hard to maintain the qualities it was founded on. We’ve seen numerous changes—changes in faculty, changes in the student body, changes in our academic programs. But, while most of Canada's smaller universities have either abandoned their roots or consolidated into larger institutions, we’ve vigorously maintained our autonomy, guarded our character, and upheld the same traditions of freedom and service that inspired the men and women stepping onto the eastern Nova Scotian shores a century and a half ago. At StFX, we’re excited about where we’re headed. But we also like to remember where we came from."


I wish I could provide you my evidence, but it is in my (signed) copy of this book as well as in my own experience and memories. When the school refers to the values it was founded on, it certainly means service - but it means that in a very secular fashion. There are good values to be taken from the origins, and bad values to be discarded. StFX is no longer a Catholic school, even if it has Catholic roots, and I'm okay with that. Character is more than religion, and that's what that means. Just...trust me. If you went to StFX, you would find Catholic symbolism and Catholics, but you would not be instructed in a Catholic fashion, nor would you feel out of place as a Muslim, or an Orthodox Jew, nor a Buddhist. That's the way we like it.

I have accepted everything you explained and I learned a lot about your situation/town.

But I don't condemn the Catholic Church as a whole because I have known better (more tolerant) priests. That's what I like to hang on to. I know how it can be done. Even if the "good guys" are in the minority, worldwide, I don't want to oppose them. I want them to multiply. I want them to replace the diehard conservatists. It happened here, and I don't know why it could not happen elsewhere, even if it takes 50-100 years.
Also I demand not so much as you from the Catholic Church in a short period of time. As you've said, it's a huge institution. Marrying in the Catholic Church is not realistic, now. It cannot be the first step. The first thing the church needs to do is stopping with discriminating gays. The way the Pope spoke about this issue was revolutionary and I am surprised that this was not received with the slightest satisfaction.

Well, at least our differences of opinions keep this topic alive. ;)

Thanks for the clarification.

For me, I simply do not see the Catholic Church as an agent of change. I see it as an organization that resists change. I hope that people can make it better, but I feel it would be far more valuable to humanity to tear it down instead. That is why I am waiting for the Pope to do more than speak on an issue. I am waiting for doctrinal change. I am waiting for him to say the Catholic Church should not have banned gay marriage in Croatia, and for him to do something about it. It is a huge organization, but it is also a theocracy. The Pope can do as he sees fit in many ways. I want more than a speech, mate. I want reality.
 
I wish I could provide you my evidence, but it is in my (signed) copy of this book as well as in my own experience and memories. When the school refers to the values it was founded on, it certainly means service - but it means that in a very secular fashion. There are good values to be taken from the origins, and bad values to be discarded. StFX is no longer a Catholic school, even if it has Catholic roots, and I'm okay with that. Character is more than religion, and that's what that means. Just...trust me. If you went to StFX, you would find Catholic symbolism and Catholics, but you would not be instructed in a Catholic fashion, nor would you feel out of place as a Muslim, or an Orthodox Jew, nor a Buddhist. That's the way we like it.
Cheers. Catholic founding and symbolism still sounds like a Catholic University by my definition but you've already said they are not a religious institute anymore, so I better stop bugging about this. :)
Thanks for the clarification.
You're welcome!
For me, I simply do not see the Catholic Church as an agent of change. I see it as an organization that resists change. I hope that people can make it better, but I feel it would be far more valuable to humanity to tear it down instead. That is why I am waiting for the Pope to do more than speak on an issue. I am waiting for doctrinal change. I am waiting for him to say the Catholic Church should not have banned gay marriage in Croatia, and for him to do something about it. It is a huge organization, but it is also a theocracy. The Pope can do as he sees fit in many ways. I want more than a speech, mate. I want reality.
To tear it down sounds even a step even further away than gay marriage (although unfortunately there are radicals who are doing just that in Syria and other regions, but of course in a more horrible way you would like to do it).
That is why I am waiting for the Pope to do more than speak on an issue. I am waiting for doctrinal change. I am waiting for him to say the Catholic Church should not have banned gay marriage in Croatia, and for him to do something about it. It is a huge organization, but it is also a theocracy. The Pope can do as he sees fit in many ways. I want more than a speech, mate. I want reality.
Can't deny that I agree with you here. Let's hope he'll stay healthy enough to do something. You never know who follows him if he can't finish some business on time.
 
Unless I am missing something blatant, there are two issues in the US where various churches have a pretty great influence.

1) Gay Marriage
2) Abortion .. and I guess you could extend this out to family planning .. but there are really not any issues with getting things like the pill, condoms, etc ... the argument is more over who should pay for it.

Beyond that you see them have influence in things like booze, pornography etc, but oddly in those you have large hunks of liberals who agree with them , though for different reasons.
 
Out of the Shadows Palace, Into the Sun Streets.....

Pope Francis has been named Person of the Year by Time magazine.

During his nine months in office, the Pope had pulled "the papacy out of the palace and into the streets", managing editor Nancy Gibbs said.

"Rarely has a new player on the world stage captured so much attention so quickly - young and old, faithful and cynical," she added.

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden was runner-up.

Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the then cardinal archbishop of Buenos Aires, was made Pope last March. He named himself Francis after a 12th Century Italian saint who turned his back on an aristocratic lifestyle to work with the poor.

Since then, he has eschewed some of the more regal trappings of high office, made headlines by washing the feet of prisoners, and is planning some major reforms to the Church.

"In his nine months in office, he has placed himself at the very centre of the central conversations of our time: about wealth and poverty, fairness and justice, transparency, modernity, globalisation, the role of women, the nature of marriage, the temptations of power," Ms Gibbs wrote.

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said it was "a positive sign" that one of the international media's most prestigious recognitions had been given to "a person who proclaims.. spiritual, religious and moral values and speaks out forcefully in favour of peace and greater justice".

"The Holy Father is not looking to become famous or to receive honours,'' said Mr Lombardi. "But if the choice of Person of Year helps spread the message of the Gospel - a message of God's love for everyone - he will certainly be happy about that."

This is the third time a Pope has received the recognition from Time magazine. John Paul II was selected in 1994 and John XXIII was chosen in 1962.

Besides Mr Snowden, this year's other finalists were US gay rights activist Edith Windsor, US Senator Ted Cruz of Texas and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.


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Pope Francis has struck a markedly different tone to his predecessors on several issues since his election in March
 
(Assad --> )Yeah, but he wouldn't be the first "bad" guy... I wish Snowden would have won. Maybe next year. They could have waited with giving this to the Pope, after some reforms.
 
Considering how they also give out Nobel Peace Prizes to people for just getting elected nowadays, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
 
They stopped being brave after naming Khomeini man of the year in 1979. Because OMG he was an enemy of America!
 
Snowden was certainly the man of the year this year. The Pope hasn't even come as close to the pure amount of news.
 
Time isn't as brave as they were in the 30s and 40s. That's all there is to it.

True, I mean, naming Hitler Man of the Year was brave. In that light, why not the Pope :p j/k, j/k.

Are you talking about the people who are loyal Catholics, or those of us who are not? I can assure you that as an atheist member of this highly religious community, I fear the influence of the Catholic Church. It has limited my advancement opportunities, health care options, and made it difficult to engage in the harmless hobbies I enjoy. But the local Catholics? mate, they love it. They're not afraid, they're willing participants. This isn't a town that fears the Church - it is a town that loves it.

Ok, this I need to know, how is being an atheist getting in the way of your healthcare? I can see advancement (blatant discrimination), but Healthcare? Is there a "Dirty Hellspawn" plan? Also what "hobbies" do you engage in that this religious community frowns upon?

Aside from that, this made me think of the major hospitals in town... they're all Catholic. They proudly display pictures from the 1800's when it was mainly ran by nuns, there is a picture of our Bishop proudly displayed and as you walk in there is usually a Virgin Mary, Jesus or other Saints either in painting or sculpture. I don't know how their funding works and if it is private or public, I shall research this shortly, but I know that the Christian schools, whether Catholic or other denominations are private, no public funding, and they are all top performing schools. All the students I've met from those schools high high critical thinking skills, good base in philosophy, math and yes, even science.
 
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