The Legacy

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How good is The Legacy on a scale of 1-10?


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Re: 'The Legacy'

Albie said:
I must try and find out where I read it, but some poster on some forum somewhere stated it reminded him of the film "Jacob's Ladder". It has been around 13 or 14 years since I watched the movie and can't remember too much about it, but the plot certainly centres around something used in the Vietnam War that had "played with their minds". The link you posted Mav, has a small reference to this movie.

According to:
03/08/2006 Kerrang preview A Matter Of Life And Death, Albie.  I found it on the IM website under -- news and then press cuttings. 

Bruce says:
"The beginning to this song is really creepy. 'A strange yellow gas has played with our minds...' It reminds me of the film 'Jacob's Ladder'.  It's really eerie stuff."
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Genghis Khan said:
According to:
03/08/2006 Kerrang preview A Matter Of Life And Death, Albie.  I found it on the IM website under -- news and then press cuttings. 

Bruce says:
"The beginning to this song is really creepy. 'A strange yellow gas has played with our minds...' It reminds me of the film 'Jacob's Ladder'.  It's really eerie stuff."
Thanks for that, I've just re-read it myself. So it was not "some poster on some forum somewhere", but Bruce himself.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Genghis Khan said:
I don't think it is a chorus.  I cannot think of another Maiden song that does not have a chorus.  Rime of the Ancient Mariner, maybe, but the original poem is not theirs, so The Legacy is different in that regard.  I like when there is not much repetition.  Repetition does get old after repeated listenings and this song is so much richer intellectually for not relying on repetition; to me it sounds deeper and more chilling than if the boys relied on a chorus.

This song grows after repeated listenings, like many have said before.  The lyrics before the solo are beautiful and frightening at the same time as is the acoustic orchestration followed by the heavy guitars.

Although this song is not about a specific dictator, for my own personal reasons I interpret the song to be about Josip "Tito" Broz and other former Yugoslav dictators.  (I know Tito did not use mustard gas or try to cause Armageddon, but most of the lyrics do fit.)  He kept the former Yugoslavia together through lies and deceit.  After he died, slowly, but surely it began to disintegrate. 


Many still congregate to the House of Flowers to visit his shrine, looking for the so called golden years.  Blind fools!

Last four verses are about the "vultures", especially Serbian dictator Milosevic.  Instead of healing old woulds, communism helped it to fester and build until the world witnessed the sickening display of violence during the 90s.  Milosevic decided to expand brutally, and Tudman raped his country of wealth.  Even today the scars are clear.  Most people in all republics of former Yugoslavia have no clue about the concepts of democracy or free economy.  Most are still looking inward instead of trying to join the rest of Europe.  Pretty sad.  Nationalism in one of its worst manifestations.  Between Serbs and Croats especially exists a barrier of language that no honest linguist can acklowledge.  "New languages" have popped up (Macedonian, Bosnian) for political reasons.  :(  I better stop before I start ranting too long.  -_-
From where are you mate? From which country?
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Albie said:
Thanks for that, I've just re-read it myself. So it was not "some poster on some forum somewhere", but Bruce himself.

You're welcome, mate.
Lazo said:
From where are you mate? From which country?

I don't think Mav would like it if The Legacy commentary gets side tracked.  He not only has the power to delete, but I read he does horrible things to pets of those who dare bend forum rules. :)  I don't know how he does it from his chair though.  :innocent:
If you want to know my email is available (so long as it is not misused) but this is not a good place to start this topic.
Anyway, I want to ensure that readers to my comment on former Yugoslavia understand that I have no ill will to any nationalities there.  I am convinced that the totalitarian leaders and their totalitarian ideologies corrupted and perverted the whole region and the regular folks are the ones who suffered, as always.  This is what I think The Legacy is all about.  When the totalitarian leader dies what will his people and the rest of the world think of him?
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Genghis Khan said:
You're welcome, mate.
I don't think Mav would like it if The Legacy commentary gets side tracked.  He not only has the power to delete, but I read he does horrible things to pets of those who dare bend forum rules. :)  I don't know how he does it from his chair though.  :innocent:
If you want to know my email is available (so long as it is not misused) but this is not a good place to start this topic.
Anyway, I want to ensure that readers to my comment on former Yugoslavia understand that I have no ill will to any nationalities there.  I am convinced that the totalitarian leaders and their totalitarian ideologies corrupted and perverted the whole region and the regular folks are the ones who suffered, as always.  This is what I think The Legacy is all about.  When the totalitarian leader dies what will his people and the rest of the world think of him?
I didn't mean to start a (political) fight. It's sa simple question. I just asked from which country are you, because you seem to know a lot how people think and act here since Tito's death or Yugoslavia's break-up.

Anyway, I know this place is not the best for this kind of discussion.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Lazo said:
I didn't mean to start a (political) fight. It's sa simple question. I just asked from which country are you, because you seem to know a lot how people think and act here since Tito's death or Yugoslavia's break-up.

Anyway, I know this place is not the best for this kind of discussion.

What the hey! 
At the risk of incurring the wrath of certain admin/mods...

I did not think you wanted a war because of the "mate", mate. I was born in Croatia and live in Canada.  I prefer Canada (obviously) but still have a soft spot for my country of birth, which I will visit next Summer.  Yeah, I do know a bit about stuff there. 

My aunt is here now so we learn a bit more about life and PRICES, which in some cases is expensive even when converted to Canadian $. 

Croatia needs to establish freedom of the press, first and foremost, if it wishes to move into the 21st cent.  The problem with ALL former East-Bloc countries is that they never went through an age of reason.  They had feudalism and then they had dictatorshits.  They went from being slaves to "lords" to being slaves to "the collective". They need to send some or more people to be educated at Oxford or another university with high status.  Then the selfish and manipulative politicians need to allow true debate.  I know there is (or was) a controversial newspaper from (the region of) Dalmatia demanding such freedom.  Alas, most people are not educated enough to fight for such ideals when they arise.  On the good side, I read not that long ago that gay union is now recognized legally in Croatia.  That's a beginning.  But then I read in the (magazine) Arena, that many Croatians have or are willing to forgive Franjo Tudman for his stealing loads and loads of money for himself and his family. That's disgusting!  Here in Canada, we've had a major political scandal (the Gomery Commission) last year where a tons of public money was misappropriated to Quebec advertizing companies.  The then prime minister Paul Martin lost many votes, partially due to this scandal.  I can tell you that Canadians old enough to understand WILL NOT FORGIVE such behaviour from a man who is supposed to represent the whole country to the world.

* steps off his soap box again.

Anyway, this song rules and so does Maiden!
I finished watching Jacob's Ladder yesterday.

This movie could easily apply to the song up to the line "only time will tell". 
A colourless gas (not yellow) is used; the movie and Maverick's wikipedia note both refer to it as BZ.

"Following an incapacitating dose of BZ, Ketchum noted the following effects, occurring in phases: The first phase lasts for a period of between one and four hours and is characterized by feelings of discomfort and apprehension. There is extreme restlessness, with involuntary spasms of the extremities and bird-like flapping of the arms. Errors of speech and scattered moments of confusion may occur. There is a peak period where the affected individual is restless and unable to walk properly (ataxia).

The effects described above can be followed by a second phase, which can last for a period of between four to twelve hours. During this phase, individuals are sedated and can be stuporous and even semi-conscious. The individual may sleep, or appear to sleep, and respond only to direct, and sometimes only to forceful, stimulation. Spontaneous groping or crawling may alternate with lying quietly.

The more extreme of the symptoms associated with exposure to BZ occur in a third phase. These take place approximately twelve hours following exposure. During this phase, hallucinations dominate an individual’s awareness, and real objects and persons are generally ignored or ludicrously misinterpreted.

Complex panoramic hallucinations tend to be most common between approximately twenty-four to forty-eight hours following exposure to doses of the compound above that which has been shown to be effective in some 50 percent of the population tested. Hallucinations may be benign, entertaining, or terrifying. Individuals exposed to BZ are frequently disoriented and unaware of their surroundings. Individuals in the vicinity of those who are affected or exposed may be recognized, or may be mistakenly identified. Vertically-shaped objects may be mistaken for individuals and, in extreme states of confusion, the affected individual may have a conversation with someone who is not physically present but who is perceived to be there through hallucination."

[ftp=ftp://http://www.hrw.org/reports98/bosniacw/Bosni98o-06.htm#P723_164611]http://www.hrw.org/reports98/bosniacw/Bosni98o-06.htm#P723_164611[/ftp]

The bold parts appear in the movie more than once.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

I saw the film too. I had trouble finding anything that would establish a stronger connection between the lyrics and the movie's plot other than Bruce's mention of the movie. Also, from what I understood, they were given the drug in the form of a cig that they thought contained cannabis. They really liked the taste too...

Janick was interviewed for the FC and the interview contained a quote that might help shed some light on the meaning of the lyrics. The whole interview can be found in the recently published FC Mag #76.

...I wrote the music, which was about something specific to me. I talked to Steve about it and he took it a different way, but it's still about the same truths and untruths that the music was written about. Although it ended up as a slightly different concept it still has the same feeling that I had in mind, which I think is great."

Are you always happy with the things Steve changes or do you sometimes tell him "no, no, that's not what I had in mind"?

It is what I had in mind. To be fair, we couldn't really write what the song was originally about. It's, mmm, it's not political, but we couldn't touch upon what it was actually about. Steve took the idea of what it was about, and made it into something we could use. There are only so many things that you can write about. We are not a political band, so we don't want to get into that too much. The Legacy was about a certain person, and Steve took it on a different level, and wrote some brilliant lyrics, and he kept the understanding and the feeling of what the song was about, and still asks the same questions."

In my opinion, this quote really closes in on what the song was originally about. So we know that it was about a certain political leader that has used deception and lies to fool his people into something they later discovered was not only wrong but devastating. Also, mentioning that certain political leader would be a no-no for Maiden, as it seems to be a really touchy subject at the moment. My bet is on Bush.

PS. lets not turn this thread into a political debate, I'm just analyzing on possible lyric meaning...
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

gor said:
PS. lets not turn this thread into a political debate, I'm just analyzing on possible lyric meaning...

Right. 
Using the same logic, Blair could possibly be a likely candidate since Maiden is from the UK.  Many are calling for him to step down.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Indeed. Maybe even more possible that it was about Blair, since Janick is half British and lives in Britain...
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

____no5 said:
oh dear lol, I thought that he was a 100%
so what is his other half ?
Janicks father was a Polish immigrant - I believe.

To be honest, it could well be about Bush or Blair - but in the UK Bush is deemed a much nastier person than Blair and Blair has been seen as a bit of a Bush "yes man" in the past. In saying that, the evilness of the person (or persons) to what this song is trying to say about, is not quite Blair. Yes, he may be unpopular, but he is not anywhere near the same league as some of the worlds most evil leaders.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Albie said:
Janicks father was a Polish immigrant - I believe.

To be honest, it could well be about Bush or Blair - but in the UK Bush is deemed a much nastier person than Blair and Blair has been seen as a bit of a Bush "yes man" in the past. In saying that, the evilness of the person (or persons) to what this song is trying to say about, is not quite Blair. Yes, he may be unpopular, but he is not anywhere near the same league as some of the worlds most evil leaders.

Agreed.  Blair may be corrupt, mildy power-mad and an all-round bastard, but he's not evil, and he's not a dictator.  He's just a simple politician; he lies, takes bribes and has unfulfilled promises, just like everyone else! :D
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Raven said:
Agreed.  Blair may be corrupt, mildy power-mad and an all-round bastard, but he's not evil, and he's not a dictator.  He's just a simple politician; he lies, takes bribes and has unfulfilled promises, just like everyone else! :D

:okok:

It could also be about Saddam Hussein, especially the allegation about using chemical warfare.  He presumably fought to make peace, now that he's gone... Oops, this is not the route I intended to go.  Hussein is an evil bastard, but as far as a politician is concerned -- he made a good run at it.  It took a while to dethrone him.  On the other hand, I know more about Bush, so when the lyrics point to "peace" in the song, it is easier to relate it to Bush, specifically.  The part of the "golden sons", for example, could very well refer to the needlessly dying soldiers who could have been "given a chance... at least."
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

I always think of people like Slobodan Milosevic or Saddam Hussein when I hear this song. The truth is, we will never know unless somebody from the band tells us, because these lyrics -as I mentioned above- can be applied to virtually any dictator from the 20th century. I hate Bush too, but let's be real here: He's not a dictator.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Dictators of the Western World are very different than what you have in mind as a dictator. A golden chain is still a chain, and you're less likely to shake it off than if it were an iron one (like non Western dictatorships). Umberto Eco once said that Dictatorships are a thing of the past for any country of the Western World. Control of the media is a much more effective means of control and it lasts longer too. I agree with that.

As for the song lyrics, I don't think that the line "you had us all strung out with promises of peace" complies with any "conventional" dictator like the ones you mention... And besides all that, the fact that Steve was not keen on going forward with the original lyrics is a tell tale sign of its own. I don't think he'd be too worried about affecting sales of AMOLAD in Iraq by offending people who support Saddam's regime.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Bush and Blair can fit that song, but since the "dictator" was anonymous in the song, no one knows. But if fits many of their actions.

It can mean any leader, as "Promises of Peace" is universally synonymous with leaders.
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Tell tale of the men all dressed in black...

70b.jpg

Black shirts (fascist paramilitary groups in post-WWI Italy)

Sent off to war to play little games...

War I
War II

Some strange yellow gas...

You lie on your death bed now...

But some are just not wanting peace...
"War is to man what maternity is to a woman. From a philosophical and doctrinal viewpoint, I do not believe in perpetual peace. "


The winner is....

benito_mussolini.jpg

Benito Mussolini
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Though Perun's comparison does make sense, the one thing different is that Mussolini never had a deathbed. Partisans shot him before he can sleep. And a body being hung isn't really the most comfortable lying in deathbed things  :P
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Well, maybe "played with their minds" doesn't mean the enemies' mind. I mean, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki some of the members of the crew responsible for dropping the bomb killed themselves.

War affects even the one who wasn't physically harmed. Affects even those who weren't there.

Btw, maybe I'm saying something stupid cause I don't know american history, but didn't an american president die during the time he was president? And wasn't that around 60's or 70's (cold war) when some of those gases were used?
 
Re: 'The Legacy'

Susie said:
after Hiroshima and Nagasaki some of the members of the crew responsible for dropping the bomb killed themselves.

That's a myth. All the pilots were alive and kicking decades after, and considered their deed patriotic and heroic.

Btw, maybe I'm saying something stupid cause I don't know american history, but didn't an american president die during the time he was president? And wasn't that around 60's or 70's (cold war) when some of those gases were used?

No. The last one was Kennedy, in 1963.
 
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