The J.R.R. Tolkien Topic (publications and adaptations)

Yeah, same. I pretty much checked out during the same part you mentioned. Just went...meh.
 
Maybe it's because I haven't read the book since I was a kid, but I don't recall the Battle of Five Armies being such a major focus as to deserve it's own movie. I think there was enough material to justify two movies, but not three. That's the big fault I think... so much of the movie is spent on a giant CGI battle (well done CGI to be fair), but after a while it just gets fatiguing.
 
I think that Peter Jackson didn't want to make same mistake as in LOTR again: no lengthy aftermaths. This time, unlike in LOTR: no endless romantic or other dull overlong scenes. No 2nd, 3rd or 4th end with stupid staring faces. Perhaps he went too far though. I think that he made some things too short at the end. So I agree with:
SinisterMinisterX said:
Thorin's dead, bye Balin, gimme back my spoons Lobelia.
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I am sure there'll be a shitload of extra material that didn't make the theater version, but that can still satisfy people who thought the end was not complete enough.

Still, that aside: Before the aftermath starts, this film is phenomenal straight from the start until the dead of Thorin. One big ride of suspense, action and sensible interaction between charcters. I also cared about Bilbo, I cared about Bard, I even cared about Thorin's madness. I cared about every dwarf, stuck between Thorin and other characters/folk they want to help. The tension between the figures, between the races, the desperation, the helplessness, it was all done in a very good way. Also there was humour, e.g. portrayed by the cowardly Laketown citizen.

The battles were a feast for the eye and the duels were without exaggerating some of the best I have ever seen in any film. As already mentioned: stunning visons of Laketown and Dale and of course the mountain (and inside!).

Some minor points of criticism: the exaggerrated over the top effects on Galadriel's voice and the way the orc came back for Thorin (from under the ice). Still, even these "fanta"-moments looked incredibly cool.

What did I find better in this film compared to the earlier two parts? Less idiotic movements a la Muppet Show / Fraggle Rock. That river scene in part 2 was ridiculously long with over the top movements. In part 3, most of the time, the fighting movements looked more realistic (alright: apart from some Legolas action).

I have accepted that these films are another version of the book. When events are only one or two lines long in the book, Jackson is free to visualize how they could have happened (e.g. Dol Goldur).
 
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question to the forum in general: how long must we keep up with spoiler tags? :cool:

Forostar said:
I am sure there'll be a shitload of extra material that didn't make the theater version, but that can still satisfy people who thought the end was not complete enough.
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I hope so and suspect you're right. This may be a case where the extended version is much better, which hasn't been true for the first two Hobbit movies.

Forostar said:
Still, that aside: Before the aftermath starts, this film is phenomenal straight from the start until the dead of Thorin. One big ride of suspense, action and sensible interaction between charcters. I also cared about Bilbo, I cared about Bard, I even cared about Thorin's madness.
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Thorin was well acted. The madness was very good. Bard was good, and the coward guy (Edward?) was good as comic relief. I don't mean to imply I didn't care at all about them, but rather that I didn't find myself as wrapped up as I did with the LotR characters. Like I said, fewer lump in the throat moments.

I did enjoy Thorin's little trick on the ice vs. Azog. :D

Forostar said:
Some minor points of criticism: the exaggerrated over the top effects on Galadriel's voice
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I actually rather enjoyed that. Galadriel immensely powerful in the books, and has deep personal reasons for hating Sauron that go back to the First Age. She should be flipping out and going over the top at him, and I loved it.
 
I was going to ask about spoilers. I don't care about seeing spoilers, although I haven't seen the film yet. I've read the book and it sounds like I've guessed much of the rest.

I always suspected the battle could end up being overplayed in the trilogy in an attempt to make it as much of an an action film as possible. I thought the barrel riders river chase in Hobbit II was a case of bombarding the audience with fast action for a little bit too long. The novelty wore off quite quickly. The dragon chase inside the mountain also wasn't strictly necessary, although more entertaining than the river scene, and I can see why they did it, to give that film a dramatic climax.

Please tell me the dragon isn't dead within the first ten minutes....
 
I saw the entire trilogy in a row at the IMAX in London, Sir Ian McKellan himself came to introduce the third one as a surprise which was fantastic! I enjoyed the film but really don't think that The Hobbit Trilogy holds a candle to LotR, too much CGI and overblown action sequences ruin them a bit for me. I think a fan-edit that condenses the movies down to around 4 hours overall could end up producing something great though.
 
Certainly more non-action scenes would make sense, e.g. more Mirkwood, but a fan can't suddenly create these himself.

So I doubt a fan could make something better out of it. Let's say (s)he'll cut out stuff.
a) Complete story lines would need to be taken out. That could cost quite some drama.
b) The alternative: You can't just make random scenes shorter. Besides: Most (if not all) action scenes make sense in this film.

The action was done in a very good way. I honestly didn't have enough of it. In all honesty, the balance in the third film felt really good. Enough strong non-action scenes as well.

Overblowh action ruined the film? Tsss. Bunch of softies. And how are you going to use less CGI in productions as these?
 
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Certainly the action was very well presented, I certainly enjoyed it more so in the third film than the second, particularly the more duel-like encounters toward the end. Dol Guldur was excellent as well, I just think that having so many of the orcs as purely CGI creatures breaks some of the immersion somewhat; the orcs and uruks in lord of the rings all had very unique looks and the fighting with them felt very real and visceral because the actors really were exchanging blows. I'd still rate the hobbit films an 8/10, whatever Peter Jackson had produced it would be near impossible to live up to the incredible standards set by LotR on every level.
 
I'd say a good fan edit would cut out:

First movie:
Old Bilbo & Frodo between prologue and flashback. We need the background on Erebor but not old Bilbo acting weird.
Keep the whole Gandalf/party scene, that's good.
Cut the trolls. Their statues didn't make the theatrical cut in LotR anyway. Something has to go, like The Old Forest in LotR.
Put in a bit of the extended stuff from Rivendell, that was good.
Cut the rock giants and most of the goblin fight. This is Bilbo's story, don't cut a second of Gollum.
Keep the ending, that was good.

Second movie:
Keep all the Beorn stuff, especially the extended version.
Cut down the spiders, and cut out Bilbo's ring freakout. He'd barely gotten the ring here, he's not a ring junkie yet.
Cut the whole river chase, and all the crap about the Master in Laketown.
End the first movie in the fan edit when Smaug wakes up and says "Hello, thief". Begin the second with the rest of the Smaug/Bilbo scene.
Do the dragon chase through Erebor, but get to the forges faster. Cut Thorin falling onto Smaug's nose in the mineshaft.

Third movie I won't do yet. Only seen it once, needs more viewings to decide. Foro has a point in that all the scenes make sense, it's hard to choose what I'd cut after just one viewing.
 
I like that edit. I'd watch it. I'll add for three:

- Cut out all of the Master of Laketown, as much as I love Stephen Fry he is wasted here, and his cowardly henchman who somehow survives the whole movie and is supposed to be comic relief.
- Cut at least one of the three scenes of characters talking to Thorin one-on-one about his lust for power and greed.
 
Took some of the Tolkien first editions down off the shelves this evening & piled them all up in a corner of the room.
And I thought, yeh!, I'm going to piss all over these!
And I did. I just pissed all over them.
Pissed. All. Over. Tolkien.
 
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The second movie indicates (extended version Smaug/Bilbo scene) that Smaug at least knows about Sauron and Sauron's plans, even if Smaug and Sauron are not directly working together. How is this possible if no one including Smaug has gone in or out of Erebor in 60 years? Is the thrush knocking on the mountain in Morse code?
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
The second movie indicates (extended version Smaug/Bilbo scene) that Smaug at least knows about Sauron and Sauron's plans, even if Smaug and Sauron are not directly working together. How is this possible if no one including Smaug has gone in or out of Erebor in 60 years? Is the thrush knocking on the mountain in Morse code?
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Telepathy, SMX. It's in the books, it's in the books...
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
Second movie:
Keep all the Beorn stuff, especially the extended version.
Cut down the spiders, and cut out Bilbo's ring freakout. He'd barely gotten the ring here, he's not a ring junkie yet.
Cut the whole river chase, and all the crap about the Master in Laketown.
End the first movie in the fan edit when Smaug wakes up and says "Hello, thief". Begin the second with the rest of the Smaug/Bilbo scene.
Do the dragon chase through Erebor, but get to the forges faster. Cut Thorin falling onto Smaug's nose in the mineshaft.
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Gotta admit that I also would like to change quite a bit in the second film. These are good suggestions. But I still haven't seen the extended edition of this one (need to buy it soon). I don't think I'd change a second from the third movie.
 
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