The Future Past tour 2023

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Melony said:
I am against downtuning. Downtuned live songs that I know well from the album sound odd to me.
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Me too. And downtuning makes it a different song.
Johann Sebastians Bachs Minuet in G Minor for example wouldn't be Minuet in G Minor any longer if downtuned, but Minuet in F# Minor. Or Minuet in F Minor. But the composer wanted it G minor.
 
Dick Brucinson said:
Me too. And downtuning makes it a different song.
Johann Sebastians Bachs Minuet in G Minor for example wouldn't be Minuet in G Minor any longer if downtuned, but Minuet in F# Minor. Or Minuet in F Minor. But the composer wanted it G minor.
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So there are two songs by Iron Maiden called Lord Of The Flies then, right? One was released in 1995 on TXF in F# minor, while the other was released in 2005 on DOTR in E minor. ;):innocent:

Excuse the sarcasm, but it's pretty silly to compare classical composing and naming conventions with Heavy Metal songs. Let's not forget that classical pieces change keys quite often and don't remain in the same key for the entire duration. Beethoven's Fifth, also known as Symphony No. 5 in C minor has sections in C major and Ab major. Also, since adopting equal temperament, the difference between keys has drastically diminished. Unless someone's got perfect pitch, it's very unlikely that they'd be able to tell if Maiden were to play in Eb standard or E standard live. I'm absolutely convinced that 95% of the audience wouldn't even realize. And I'm talking about being in the arena, not analyzing the video on YouTube afterwards.
 
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I don't think it gets any simpler, nor any complicated than this:

Differently performed rendition by the same creator(s)/performer(s)? Same song.
Differently performed rendition by anyone else but the creator(s)/performer(s)? Not the same song.

Dream Theater managed to sneak in the theme song from The Simpsons while performing A Change of Seasons on Live Scenes From New York. Is it now a completely different song now and no longer A Change of Seasons?
 
Vaenyr said:
So there are two songs by Iron Maiden called Lord Of The Flies then, right? One was released in 1995 on TXF in F# minor, while the other was released in 2005 on DOTR in E minor. ;):innocent:

Excuse the sarcasm, but it's pretty silly to compare classical composing and naming conventions with Heavy Metal songs. Let's not forget that classical pieces change keys quite often and don't remain in the same key for the entire duration. Beethoven's Fifth, also known as Symphony No. 5 in C minor has sections in C major and Ab major. Also, since adopting equal temperament, the difference between keys has drastically diminished. Unless someone's got perfect pitch, it's very unlikely that they'd be able to tell if Maiden were to play in Eb standard or E standard live. I'm absolutely convinced that 95% of the audience wouldn't even realize. And I'm talking about being in the arena, not analyzing the video on YouTube afterwards.
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100%.
I think the resistance to downtuning is mainly due to musical ignorance. Not trying to diss anybody, just saying that in professional music, the composition's key can change for a lot of reasons, and most people aren't aware of these reasons. Often the music is transposed to fit the singer's voice (like we suggest to do here with Bruce) other times it's to accomodate an instrument with a different range, and a million other reasons.

As you said, in our modern system of ET, the differences between keys is almost non existent for people without perfect pitch.
 
And to offer some nuance in the perspective of an anecdote:
I'm a baritone and my higher register is ony of my weakest areas. I wouldn't be able to sing most Maiden songs in their original keys even on my good days. A few buddies and me decided to cover The Wicker Man during our jam sessions. I've got a 7 string guitar, the bassist a 5 string, etc. so I proposed we'd play the song the way it is, but drop every note one string. Instead of playing it in the key of E minor, we played 5 steps down in the key of B minor. This I could sing very well, since it fit right in my register. At the same time, it obviously sounded wildly different, since 5 steps is a big leap.

I'm not expecting Maiden to do anything like that, and honestly, I wouldn't want that in the first place. I'd say half a step would go a long way and for very difficult cases maybe even a full step to D standard. Since the amigos carry a number of guitars with them and switch them around in the same set, it would be possible to change instruments for specific songs that would benefit from being tuned down.

Also, another thing I remembered: Right after TWOTW released there was a video from one of Bruce's one man shows. For the a cappella section he decided to sing the new song. What's hilarious to me is that he started singing it, realized mid-line how freaking high that was and that he wasn't properly warmed up/had talked a lot by that point, so he immediately changed keys and transposed it a bit to a more comfortable range. Just throwing that out there :D
 
Vaenyr said:
Also, another thing I remembered: Right after TWOTW released there was a video from one of Bruce's one man shows. For the a cappella section he decided to sing the new song. What's hilarious to me is that he started singing it, realized mid-line how freaking high that was and that he wasn't properly warmed up/had talked a lot by that point, so he immediately changed keys and transposed it a bit to a more comfortable range. Just throwing that out there :D
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I took that video :D
 
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It´s still more than 8 months until the gig so I guess I don´t have to worry.
 
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