JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Candlelight, Awakenings, Overture, Run with the Devil
SYMPHONY X SURVIVOR 2015: Results -> The Odyssey wins!
- Thread starter Night Prowler
- Start date
Listened to Underworld on the car ride home today. First time playing it since it came out and it holds up pretty well. Maybe I'm just not into Symphony X that much anymore but as much as I enjoy every song on the album, nothing really floors me on it either. Still a really strong album and musically the missing link between The Odyssey and Paradise Lost. For me, Kiss of Fire was the clear weak song, but obviously I'm in the minority there. 
It has some neat moments but overall it sounds like a leftover from Iconoclast.
Also, SX needs to get rid of those choir samples.
It has some neat moments but overall it sounds like a leftover from Iconoclast. Also, SX needs to get rid of those choir samples.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Choir samples are kind of the basis of the SX sound, old or new.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Mosh, are you referring to the staccato "ah , ah" chants heard throughout Underworld (particularly the chorus and end of Kiss of Fire?) If so, those are definitely a "newer" thing for Symphony X; I don't recall them being nearly as prominent on pre-Paradise Lost albums. But they're all over songs like Domination and some of the Underworld tracks.
I've been listening to Underworld practically nonstop since its release, and just like Paradise Lost, it has no clear filler. Unlike Paradise Lost, however, it has much more of the signature Symphony X sound - more keyboards, more polymeters, more symphonies. I actually think it's a great balance between Paradise Lost and Iconoclast, with the melodic aspect of the former and the technicality of the latter. However, some of the songs feel a bit "poppy" and commercial for the band and thus could've been elongated (seriously, why do the vocals in the beautiful Swan Song have to start 10 seconds in?) The Walls of Babylon and the Iconoclast title track are perfect examples of more recent intros done in an interesting manner, and that's what this album lacks. Even the relatively "epic" To Hell and Back (a track that I find decent but has never quite clicked with me) rushes the vocals in rather quickly.
The clear winners on this album are the brutal yet surprisingly melodic title track, the hammering grooves of Kiss of Fire, and the somewhat melancholy yet oddly uplifting Swan Song - a track that I find to be their best ballad since Accolade II. Honorable mentions go to the V-themed Charon, with its twisting Eastern grooves and insanely polymetric pre-chorus, and the obviously Rush-influenced closer, Legend.
The rest of the album ranges from good to simply average, although once again, there's no clear-cut filler here - just like Paradise Lost (but certainly not like Iconoclast). Without You is easily Symphony X's most commercial-sounding song, but it's not bad whatsoever - the middle instrumental portion is quite beautiful. To Hell and Back has some great moments - the synth intro, the catchy verses with Romeo's funky guitars, "No quarter asked, no quarter given," and the Metallica-ish sounding heavy middle section - but the song never really takes off the way the band's other mini-epics have. None of the solos are really that memorable, either, but I'm not complaining much since Romeo's leads, while technically amazing, rarely strike an emotional chord with me outside of Swan Song, Accolade II, and a few others.
I feel the album dips in quality for In My Darkest Hour and Run with the Devil (seriously, can we get any more cliche titles?) The former has a great chorus but nothing else noteworthy, while the latter - while always putting me in a good mood due to its upbeat "classic rock" nature - doesn't feel at all like a Symphony X song. Sure, Romeo's shredding and Russell's wailing and LePond's tapping away, but this sounds awfully like a Russell Allen solo song and probably should have been quarantined to one of his albums.
Finally, there's the somehow popular Nevermore - a song that has never really clicked with me. For any other band it would be solid, but for Symphony X, it's painfully average. 4/4 groove, radio-friendly chorus, boring verses, etc. Only the bridge, middle instrumental portion, and solo hold my interest. I really hope they don't keep this as a live staple, since the title track and Kiss of Fire sounded far better to my ears when I saw them last. This is my least listened-to song on the album outside of Overture, although I think that overall, In My Darkest Hour is the weakest.
I love Symphony X - they're probably my favorite artist overall - but I want them to return to a more complex, neoclassical sound. They've proven they're great at writing average-length aggressive metal songs, and now they need to go back and write a progressive album like V. This album, for the most part, was a definite step in the right direction in terms of tonality after the sub-par synthetic Iconoclast, but when I think of my favorite Symphony X songs, they're all the epics - Divine Wings, Edge of Forever, Looking Glass, Communion, Rediscovery, The Odyssey, etc. Nothing on their last three albums has even come close to the magic of their previous works.
I've been listening to Underworld practically nonstop since its release, and just like Paradise Lost, it has no clear filler. Unlike Paradise Lost, however, it has much more of the signature Symphony X sound - more keyboards, more polymeters, more symphonies. I actually think it's a great balance between Paradise Lost and Iconoclast, with the melodic aspect of the former and the technicality of the latter. However, some of the songs feel a bit "poppy" and commercial for the band and thus could've been elongated (seriously, why do the vocals in the beautiful Swan Song have to start 10 seconds in?) The Walls of Babylon and the Iconoclast title track are perfect examples of more recent intros done in an interesting manner, and that's what this album lacks. Even the relatively "epic" To Hell and Back (a track that I find decent but has never quite clicked with me) rushes the vocals in rather quickly.
The clear winners on this album are the brutal yet surprisingly melodic title track, the hammering grooves of Kiss of Fire, and the somewhat melancholy yet oddly uplifting Swan Song - a track that I find to be their best ballad since Accolade II. Honorable mentions go to the V-themed Charon, with its twisting Eastern grooves and insanely polymetric pre-chorus, and the obviously Rush-influenced closer, Legend.
The rest of the album ranges from good to simply average, although once again, there's no clear-cut filler here - just like Paradise Lost (but certainly not like Iconoclast). Without You is easily Symphony X's most commercial-sounding song, but it's not bad whatsoever - the middle instrumental portion is quite beautiful. To Hell and Back has some great moments - the synth intro, the catchy verses with Romeo's funky guitars, "No quarter asked, no quarter given," and the Metallica-ish sounding heavy middle section - but the song never really takes off the way the band's other mini-epics have. None of the solos are really that memorable, either, but I'm not complaining much since Romeo's leads, while technically amazing, rarely strike an emotional chord with me outside of Swan Song, Accolade II, and a few others.
I feel the album dips in quality for In My Darkest Hour and Run with the Devil (seriously, can we get any more cliche titles?) The former has a great chorus but nothing else noteworthy, while the latter - while always putting me in a good mood due to its upbeat "classic rock" nature - doesn't feel at all like a Symphony X song. Sure, Romeo's shredding and Russell's wailing and LePond's tapping away, but this sounds awfully like a Russell Allen solo song and probably should have been quarantined to one of his albums.
Finally, there's the somehow popular Nevermore - a song that has never really clicked with me. For any other band it would be solid, but for Symphony X, it's painfully average. 4/4 groove, radio-friendly chorus, boring verses, etc. Only the bridge, middle instrumental portion, and solo hold my interest. I really hope they don't keep this as a live staple, since the title track and Kiss of Fire sounded far better to my ears when I saw them last. This is my least listened-to song on the album outside of Overture, although I think that overall, In My Darkest Hour is the weakest.
I love Symphony X - they're probably my favorite artist overall - but I want them to return to a more complex, neoclassical sound. They've proven they're great at writing average-length aggressive metal songs, and now they need to go back and write a progressive album like V. This album, for the most part, was a definite step in the right direction in terms of tonality after the sub-par synthetic Iconoclast, but when I think of my favorite Symphony X songs, they're all the epics - Divine Wings, Edge of Forever, Looking Glass, Communion, Rediscovery, The Odyssey, etc. Nothing on their last three albums has even come close to the magic of their previous works.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Hold on, I need coffee before I read that.
EDIT: Okay, coffee acquired.
I don't get the love for Swan Song. I like it quite a bit, but it's nowhere near their older ballads and doesn't even hook me as much as Paradise Lost (song). The chorus is just a bit too droll and long and it really drags down the emotionality of it. The piano is gorgeous and it's still a solid 9/10, but it never really takes things to the next level the way those old ballads did.
To Hell and Back is one of the best songs on this album and one of the most complete "mini-epics" the band has ever written. I feel the way about this song that you do about Swan Song. It's catchy as hell, yet still complex enough to retain that SX sound. I love it.
Totally agreed on Nevermore, it is the least relistenable song on the whole album. It simply doesn't do much and the chorus feels underwritten. Still a very good song, but underwhelming for SX. Run with The Devil is the weakest here, but I still really like it. It's certainly more of a Russell Allen solo song, but that seems to be a trend on these newer albums, i.e. Russell having more of a say in the "straight-up rock" nature of the band. And hey, if that's what it takes to keep Russell in the band and not quit to just cash in paychecks with TSO and Adrenaline Mob, then I'll accept it with wide open arms.
However, I think In My Darkest Hour (despite the title) is one of SX's best short songs. It is poppy and it is simplistic, but it is just done so well. This song sounds like the band finally achieving that "radio-ready" sound they've been striving for over the last 2 albums (or as much "radio-ready" as SX can possibly be) and I don't care because it's done well. The chorus is infinitely catchy.
I hope I'm wrong, but don't count on it. They have moved on. Maybe we'll one day get a throwback album like Death Magnetic, but it will be derivative, meandering, and soulless like Death Magnetic. I like @Mosh's idea about this being the missing link between Odyssey and PL. If that's true, hopefully we'll get something like The Odyssey next time (in 2020 if we're lucky).
EDIT: Okay, coffee acquired.
I don't get the love for Swan Song. I like it quite a bit, but it's nowhere near their older ballads and doesn't even hook me as much as Paradise Lost (song). The chorus is just a bit too droll and long and it really drags down the emotionality of it. The piano is gorgeous and it's still a solid 9/10, but it never really takes things to the next level the way those old ballads did.
To Hell and Back is one of the best songs on this album and one of the most complete "mini-epics" the band has ever written. I feel the way about this song that you do about Swan Song. It's catchy as hell, yet still complex enough to retain that SX sound. I love it.
Totally agreed on Nevermore, it is the least relistenable song on the whole album. It simply doesn't do much and the chorus feels underwritten. Still a very good song, but underwhelming for SX. Run with The Devil is the weakest here, but I still really like it. It's certainly more of a Russell Allen solo song, but that seems to be a trend on these newer albums, i.e. Russell having more of a say in the "straight-up rock" nature of the band. And hey, if that's what it takes to keep Russell in the band and not quit to just cash in paychecks with TSO and Adrenaline Mob, then I'll accept it with wide open arms.
However, I think In My Darkest Hour (despite the title) is one of SX's best short songs. It is poppy and it is simplistic, but it is just done so well. This song sounds like the band finally achieving that "radio-ready" sound they've been striving for over the last 2 albums (or as much "radio-ready" as SX can possibly be) and I don't care because it's done well. The chorus is infinitely catchy.
I hope I'm wrong, but don't count on it. They have moved on. Maybe we'll one day get a throwback album like Death Magnetic, but it will be derivative, meandering, and soulless like Death Magnetic. I like @Mosh's idea about this being the missing link between Odyssey and PL. If that's true, hopefully we'll get something like The Odyssey next time (in 2020 if we're lucky).
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Lampwick 43
Barstool Warrior
After listening to Underworld, I find it to be a solid album. The 1st half of the album didn't stand out to me much, but the 2nd half was a lot stronger. It is Much better than Paradise Lost, and probably slightly better than Iconoclast. I still can't put it anywhere close to the top 4 albums, however.
Voting for Overture, Nevermore, Kiss of Fire, Charon, Darkest Hour.
If I had to rank the albums, I would go:
V
Divine Wings
Odyssey
Twilight
Damnation Game
Underworld
Iconoclast
Paradise Lost
Symphony X
Voting for Overture, Nevermore, Kiss of Fire, Charon, Darkest Hour.
If I had to rank the albums, I would go:
V
Divine Wings
Odyssey
Twilight
Damnation Game
Underworld
Iconoclast
Paradise Lost
Symphony X
No need to vote for songs from earlier albums anymore since no new albums are joining the game. Listened to Underworld today on the way to the dentist (and back). I still don't like the style at all... Russell sounds horrible on first two songs... dunno what happened to him. Without You is step in the wrong direction stylistically but it's an OK song and at least it doesn't have boring relentless riffing like most other songs on this album. Charon has a cool chorus and Swan Song is a good idea (though not that great of a song). Voting for all others from Underworld.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
I have heard Underworld in its entirety for the first time since October and ... I still love it. Yes, I understand fans of Divine Wings, V or even Odyssey might have problems with it, but I don't mind. It's really very different. I love it from start to finish (well, no, f*ck Overture) and Kiss of Fire is my favourite "heavy" moment of 2015 and Legend might be actually my favourite 2015 song. Swansong's good, but it overstays its welcome a bit. Charon is amazing (along with the above-mentioned pre-chorus craziness) and the title track is just sick. I love, love, love the album. I love it in a very different way from Divine Wings or Odyssey, but not less. Only voting against Overture and Run with the Devil, since it's pretty much
I might have said this elsewhere here on this forum, but in a weird way I think Underworld is actually their heaviest, beating even Iconoclast. Because it's much more melodic. I mean, you can be the most blast-beaty-distorty band in the world, but to me it starts to get a bit sterile and similar in the end. If you, however, combine catchy melodies with some real heaviness, you get something that sound to me much heavier than your average Cannibal Corpse album. I'm just that weird.
I might have said this elsewhere here on this forum, but in a weird way I think Underworld is actually their heaviest, beating even Iconoclast. Because it's much more melodic. I mean, you can be the most blast-beaty-distorty band in the world, but to me it starts to get a bit sterile and similar in the end. If you, however, combine catchy melodies with some real heaviness, you get something that sound to me much heavier than your average Cannibal Corpse album. I'm just that weird.
Eliminated:
Overture - 7 votes
Run With The Devil - 6 votes
In My Darkest Hour - 5 votes
Nevermore - 4 votes
Underworld, Kiss, Not Anzio, Legend.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Candlelight (DIE ALREADY!!!), Awakenings and Swan Song.
Now that we've reached the end of the album rounds, it still remains my favorite Symphony X. Candlelight Fantasia > all songs from last 3 albums, and it's not even close.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
BTW - it's a pity Nevermore was eliminated. I just love the Romeo noodlings under the verse and the chorus. Makes me smile every time.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Wow - I'm shocked yet pleased that the weakest songs from an album actually were eliminated first.
Sins (just die already - Candlelight is a better written song)
Inferno (better song than Sins, but this clearly doesn't compare to the other three Odyssey epics)
Without You (good, but I like my Symphony X with less pop)
Charon (I love it but I have to start voting strategically now)
To Hell and Back (it just isn't that epic for its track length)
Legend (see Charon)
Can you expound on this? Outside of their ballads, Symphony X has always been pretty riff-based.
I agree. It is a very well-rounded album with no true filler that flows quite well. And that bridge/outro riff in Kiss of Fire is probably the coolest heavy riff the band has ever written.
I think Underworld surpasses Iconoclast in every department except for technicality, which isn't a massive deal when the songs groove as well as they do on Underworld. To be fair, however, I think most of the songs on Iconoclast were designed to be a bit more sterile due to the mechanical theme - the problem was that the album was simply too intense for too long.
Sins (just die already - Candlelight is a better written song)
Inferno (better song than Sins, but this clearly doesn't compare to the other three Odyssey epics)
Without You (good, but I like my Symphony X with less pop)
Charon (I love it but I have to start voting strategically now)
To Hell and Back (it just isn't that epic for its track length)
Legend (see Charon)
Can you expound on this? Outside of their ballads, Symphony X has always been pretty riff-based.
I agree. It is a very well-rounded album with no true filler that flows quite well. And that bridge/outro riff in Kiss of Fire is probably the coolest heavy riff the band has ever written.
I think Underworld surpasses Iconoclast in every department except for technicality, which isn't a massive deal when the songs groove as well as they do on Underworld. To be fair, however, I think most of the songs on Iconoclast were designed to be a bit more sterile due to the mechanical theme - the problem was that the album was simply too intense for too long.
Yeah, but keyboards also had many cool moments where they were "leading" the songs, with guitar providing the rhythm. Nowadays, Romeo rarely stops to give the keyboards something to do. His guitar is way too loud and overwhelms everything else. Even when keyboards do appear on this album they are only in the background doing nothing interesting. You mentioned in your posts how keyboards are much more used than on PL and Iconoclast but I don't hear it.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
I can agree that the band is more in "riff mode" since 2007 than they were previously, and that the keyboards are taking more of a back seat to the guitar. I do miss the dynamic, staccato riffs of the past where the keys would play a single-note motif (often in a different timing) over the chunky guitar. Eyes of Medusa, Fallen, Through the Looking Glass... all great examples of that. Granted, some of the riffs of the last few albums have been impressive, but I do miss that old sound because it was unique and contained more feeling.
Underworld has more keyboard moments that initially jumped out at me than the previous two albums did. The faster, thrashier songs (generally my least favorite) dial the keys down a bit, but the title track, Without You, To Hell and Back, Swan Song, and Legend are loaded with keyboards. I seem to recall there being a few more keyboard solos, too, but the solo sections are when I tune out the most, so who knows.
The title track is probably the most impressive and well-balanced song they've written since The Odyssey years. It contains their newer aggression in the verses, but they balanced it perfectly with melodic and neoclassical aspects that brought back some of their earlier sound. I only wish the song was a few minutes longer and experimented a bit more in the middle. It was nice to hear them write a song where the chorus was only used twice, as it's something they've rarely done in recent years (Reign in Madness is the only other one that comes to mind).
Also, I think that on Underworld they lost pretty much all of the power-metalness they had in their sound. Riffs are closer to melodeath than anything else.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Other than a few instances, like the choruses of the title track and Legend, I would agree. But I don't consider that a bad thing, as I've never been a fan of cliche double-bass-running sixteenth note chugging power metal. Their early songs of this style were among my least favorite of theirs.
Agreed. Romeo has been too loud on everything from The Odyssey forward, but The Odyssey had a better overall balance (but a crappy compressed bass tone), while Paradise Lost suffered from the loudness war. Iconoclast was the best mix until Underworld came along, but the bass didn't have the great tone it had on Paradise Lost and the non-synth keyboards were still too low in the mix.
Unfortunately, metal is more about the guitars than it is other instruments, and because the band has had a new found boost in popularity following Paradise Lost, I don't expect them to ever go back to an "all instruments at the same volume" V-style mix.