Steve 'Loopy' Newhouse's blog

lira

Nomad
How do people find out it is Cairns right arm? That sounds a bit..well, out there :D Also wouldn't you say that the photograph you posted above could be Smiler instead of Maiden? When the only two recognizable people are Harris and Doug, who both played in Smiler?
If that was Smiler I would then recognize the Clee brothers and Dennis Wilcock. On Early Days there's a b&w pic of Paul Di'Anno and Murray playing together, and Paul has long hair. In that bad quality picture Murray to me is so-so, but Harris and Sampson are very apparent.
 

clivetiger

Prowler
I'm finding this thread absolutely fascinating! I note that the street sign in the picture is Victoria Street. According to the Spaceward Studios website, Spaceward was indeed situated on Victoria Street.

Off topic, but I could just go for a pint of Greene King Old Speckled Hen too!
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Forostar, in researching you may find other inconsistencies in early Maiden history. One of them tells that the November 1977 was the gig where all things came to an end on the Wilcock/Wapram/Harris/Purkis/Moore lineup - the keyboard didn't fit, the drummer busted his solo, after that gig they disbanded... But only part of that really occurred and that was Tony Moore leaving. The band did surive after that. Barry Purkis, the Thunderstick, played at least 5 or 6 gigs. He was a good drummer. If he wasn't, Maiden wouldn't bother calling him back for an audition after Doug Sampson left. Some of these things I researched, others I asked the drummer personally.
Looks like you and Baztac are doing a fine job.

I will investigate your site http://www.maidenrelations.webs.com/ !

At times, I also have this postal stamp collector kind of fandom madness. If interested, check this:
http://forum.maidenfans.com/threads/a-question-about-the-number-of-the-beast-music-video.14173/
:)

By the way, funny to realize that Paul Di'Anno did the Soundhouse Tapes without having played any gigs with the band. He sounds like he has that experience, but I guess they worked hard during rehearsals. :)
 

Baztac

Invader
For those that don't think Paul may have participated in the recordings here are some things to think about.

Paul never actively chased recognition until myself and Lira followed up a comment made by his brother.
Paul probably never thought much about his participation until we pointed out to him that no-one knew he was involved.
He has been playing guitar in a Country & Western band so has probably not kept up with what Maiden have been doing.
Also why would he have been so specific about what parts he played.
While the photo is pretty blurred I make the comment again about the height of each member compared to the official photograph and Nelson the Dog (Laz specifically mentions Nelson "going everywhere" on the DVD). Also Maiden would not just go back to Victoria Street, Cambridge in the snow just to grab a photo opportunity.
What would Paul hope to gain by giving out this information apart from recognition.
If he was looking for money then obviously Steve (and Rod) would know the truth and if he was lying he would get nothing any way.
If it is true (which I believe it is) and he is trying to get any money then he will have a difficult time in getting any as I suspect the argument would be that any monies generated from the demo would have been put back into the band back in the early days. I have no idea about any monies/royalties due from the reissues during the Best of the Beast / Virus releases.

For those that don't believe, please don't take offence at the following questions.
Why do you Not want to believe that Paul was part of the recording line up?
Do you believe that Maiden are a paragon of virtue? if so why does Paul Day claim to have written Strange World and yet received no writing credit, Why did Thunderstick help write Thunderburst (Samson song) with Steve Harris but only Steve wrote Ides of March.

What we hear in the official history is what Steve and Rod want us to hear. Just because it is written in black and white doesn't necessarily make it true.

Any way I have gone on long enough about this subject and if you are still not convinced about Paul then it is fine with me. We are all going to enjoy the music no matter who played on the tracks.
Cheers
Barry
 

MikeJwF

Invader
Every one pretty much agrees that there was a second guitar player on TST. No one rally knows for a fact who it is, so IMO it might as well be Paul Cairns. Especially if he claims to have written Strange World, the in itself could have created the politics to not mention him, for whatever reason.
 

lira

Nomad
SixesAllTheWay, here is the picture I'm talking at Ruskin Arms. Earlier today I tried to upload it at work but couldn't. So here it is. Spot Di'Anno with long hair and part of Cairns body with his guitar! Shame it doesn't show the entire band properly...

5111953_n.jpg
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Any way I have gone on long enough about this subject and if you are still not convinced about Paul then it is fine with me.
Every post you gave more convincing information. Keep us updated, if you find out more!
We are all going to enjoy the music no matter who played on the tracks.
Cheers
Barry
I am enjoying it more now. I am into this kind of stuff. The more I learn about how (recordings of) songs came to be, the better.
 

Perun

And the world, unheeding, turns
Staff member
Why do you Not want to believe that Paul was part of the recording line up?
I'm not saying I do "not want to believe", I just don't find all of this very convincing. This is a big story that comes out of nowhere, and a lot of it still doesn't make very much sense. I've been taught to treat sources, informations and theories critically, and not just take everything as it is being said. So far, there's a lot of evidence that could really be interpreted in many possible ways.

Still, please go on. I have to admit that either way, this is all quite an interesting occasion to look at the band's early history.
 

SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
SixesAllTheWay, here is the picture I'm talking at Ruskin Arms. Earlier today I tried to upload it at work but couldn't. So here it is. Spot Di'Anno with long hair and part of Cairns body with his guitar! Shame it doesn't show the entire band properly...

View attachment 3872
Great picture. I can definitely see the resemblance now more clearly between Paul Di'Anno in this picture and the way he looks at the old Victoria Street photograph.

As you said, shame that the picture doesn't prove or disprove anything with regard to Cairns since you can't really see who that guy is. Judging from the white shirt, the curly brown hair and the guitar...I thought it was Dennis Stratton..Wearing the same stage clothes as he does on this picture:



As for the whole "don't want to believe thing" that's not the case for me. I've already recognized that it does sound like there is a second guitarist playing on the demo and that it could just as well be Cairns. I'm just looking for substantial evidence to prove it :)
 

Perun

And the world, unheeding, turns
Staff member
Alright, allow me to summarise the suggested scenario for now.

Paul Cairns joins Iron Maiden at some point before they record The Soundhouse Tapes. The band record the demo and right away decide they must forever keep Cairns' involvement a secret. They do not print his name or picture on the back of the record sleeve. Paul Cairns apparently never notices this, despite the band selling the EP at their gigs, even signed copies. Cairns never sees a signed copy, or the back of the record sleeve, or never thinks anything of it. The secret is so important to the band that Doug Sampson, and even Paul di'Anno never, ever make mention of it despite being interviewed about their time in the band for thirty years, and despite di'Anno willing to talk anything about the band, true or not.
Paul Cairns is not written out of the band history, probably because people would notice. However, he is moved forward in the chronology to a point after the recording of The Soundhouse Tapes, and conveniently in a time frame which is quite obscure, with few gigs, photos, bootlegs and whatnot.Of course, memories are hazy, and get hazier the more time progresses.
25 years later, despite everybody involved back then keeping silent, Dave Murray, of all people, casually slips the information in an interview made for the Early Days. Luckily, this is discovered, and edited out of the video.
Thirty years later, Loopy discloses the information, again casually, for no other reason than to tell his story. His memory is everything but hazy, but actually astonishingly detailed for a time that lies thirty years back. Interestingly, while Loopy gets some mention in Paul di'Annos "autobiography" (I use this term loosely here), Paul Cairns isn't, although di'Anno is committed to telling the truth (in his own words, that is).
Even Paul Cairns never talked about this to anyone else except his brother, who now wants to know why he isn't mentioned anywhere as a member in the recording of The Soundhouse Tapes. He has a photo which he claims was taken at the time of the recording sessions, but is too grainy to make out anyone in particular (except Steve and the famous dog), and really could have been taken at any time during the winter. Conveniently, Doug Sampson even mentions in Run to the Hills that Cairns joined at a time when there was a lot of heavy snow... as if he knew the picture would surface at some point.

Did I get all of this right?
 

lira

Nomad
Alright, allow me to summarise the suggested scenario for now.

Paul Cairns joins Iron Maiden at some point before they record The Soundhouse Tapes. The band record the demo and right away decide they must forever keep Cairns' involvement a secret. They do not print his name or picture on the back of the record sleeve. Paul Cairns apparently never notices this, despite the band selling the EP at their gigs, even signed copies. Cairns never sees a signed copy, or the back of the record sleeve, or never thinks anything of it. The secret is so important to the band that Doug Sampson, and even Paul di'Anno never, ever make mention of it despite being interviewed about their time in the band for thirty years, and despite di'Anno willing to talk anything about the band, true or not.
No, if they wanted Cairns to be a secret why they should include him in the biography anyway? His comment about it was that he didn't care at the time the demo was released (i'll see if i find what he wrote). So he knew about it at the time. About the other members not talking about him on TST, i will always find that strange but at the same time something can always be edited out. I also never hear any Maiden member commenting about Tony Parsons. The guy played many gigs and recorded some songs. If you find 2 sentences from Steve about him on Early Days DVD, tell me. I will never understand that.

Paul Cairns is not written out of the band history, probably because people would notice. However, he is moved forward in the chronology to a point after the recording of The Soundhouse Tapes, and conveniently in a time frame which is quite obscure, with few gigs, photos, bootlegs and whatnot.Of course, memories are hazy, and get hazier the more time progresses.
You made a very interesting observation. If you're talking about the Early Days DVD Perun, yes they put Tony Parsons first on the chronology, then Paul Todd and then Paul Cairns. I wonder if that was a deliberal thing because Tony Parsons is the second guitarist featuring at the back cover of the Soundhouse release. Anybody sees that? Good point.

25 years later, despite everybody involved back then keeping silent, Dave Murray, of all people, casually slips the information in an interview made for the Early Days. Luckily, this is discovered, and edited out of the video.
It was not a case of "luckily", just the big eye of Steve and Rod on the final cut. Other things may be edited out as well... I mean, Murray did say something about the guitarist, or he could be saying: "...and some other guy i can't remember now" or "...I really think someone else did the other guitar part...". The thing is, he was about to say something because he was accessing the back of his mind.

Thirty years later, Loopy discloses the information, again casually, for no other reason than to tell his story. His memory is everything but hazy, but actually astonishingly detailed for a time that lies thirty years back. Interestingly, while Loopy gets some mention in Paul di'Annos "autobiography" (I use this term loosely here), Paul Cairns isn't, although di'Anno is committed to telling the truth (in his own words, that is).
Loopy was very close to Di'Anno even before Maiden, so he was naturally mentioned, in my opinion.

Even Paul Cairns never talked about this to anyone else except his brother, who now wants to know why he isn't mentioned anywhere as a member in the recording of The Soundhouse Tapes. He has a photo which he claims was taken at the time of the recording sessions, but is too grainy to make out anyone in particular (except Steve and the famous dog), and really could have been taken at any time during the winter. Conveniently, Doug Sampson even mentions in Run to the Hills that Cairns joined at a time when there was a lot of heavy snow... as if he knew the picture would surface at some point.

Did I get all of this right?
As Baztac mentioned and I agree, i don't think Maiden would take a pic in front of the studio for no reason. I think Doug just mentioned something he remembers, not that he had any reasons to worry about the picture surfacing or not (if he even knew about the picture...).

The Soundhouse Tapes was released after Rod Smallwood took part in the band's lifetime and also about the time they got signed to EMI. Until there many decisions and changes were certainly made for comercial purposes.
 

Baztac

Invader
When Paul was in the band the demo only existed on cassette tapes. One of which found its way to Neal Kaye. Paul was out of the band in April. When they started to press the E.P. later on in late summer /autumn it would make no sense listing a former member as he was not part of the line up. Paul had probably moved on and forgotten about Maiden.
 

lira

Nomad
The demos on the cassette are on a different order and I've heard those are the raw versions. Anybody knows if the demos had some treatment before being released as The Soundhouse Tapes?
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
I'm not saying I do "not want to believe", I just don't find all of this very convincing.
At least, I find it more convincing than the official story. More research, more clues.
This is a big story that comes out of nowhere, and a lot of it still doesn't make very much sense. I've been taught to treat sources, informations and theories critically, and not just take everything as it is being said. So far, there's a lot of evidence that could really be interpreted in many possible ways.
It's also a feeling or a matter of judgment. I feel the official treatment of the story is not correct.

Maiden have had several opportunities to come up with the truth.

- Running Free (official biography), 1984
- Best of the Beast, 1996 (best occasion to mention the correct line-up)
- Run to the Hills, (official biography), several editions
- The Early Years DVD

Instead, for years in a row they kept beating around the bush, or better: gave wrong information. When it comes to such decisions, I am not sure if they have a good idea about people who listen to their music, who want to know who plays on what.

Partly because some people don't take everything for granted, this came alive.

This unofficial story has more acceptable angles than the misinformation and lack of information we had, before it came up.
Still, please go on. I have to admit that either way, this is all quite an interesting occasion to look at the band's early history.
It certainly is, and not in the least because all this sounds more probable than the alternatives.
 

Perun

And the world, unheeding, turns
Staff member
When Paul was in the band the demo only existed on cassette tapes. One of which found its way to Neal Kaye. Paul was out of the band in April. When they started to press the E.P. later on in late summer /autumn it would make no sense listing a former member as he was not part of the line up. Paul had probably moved on and forgotten about Maiden.
That is, honestly, about the only thing I've read so far here that makes sense.
 
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