Steve 'Loopy' Newhouse's blog

MikeJwF

Invader
Hi guys,
My name is Barry and between myself and Lira we discovered that Paul Cairns played on the Soundhouse Tapes, the story of which was published in the Clairvoyant book.
Pretty much most of the evidence has been discussed already.

back in early 2010 I noted that Hugh Cairns (Paul's Brother) posted on the Spaceward Studios site that his brother was part of the line up at the time and the copy of the tape they had has gone missing.
Sometime afterwards Lira wrote to me discussing the possibility that Paul Cairns possibly played on the Soundhouse Tapes.
I then managed to get in touch with Paul who passed me the information of what parts he played.
Paul emailed me the photo showing the band (in the snow as mentioned on the various DVD interviews) outside the pub adjacent to the studio. Note Paul's Dog Nelson was also in the photo (Laz specifically mentions in the Early Days doc that Pauls dog went everywhere with the band)

Pauls first gig with Maiden was the Bridgehouse on the 15 Feb 1979 (i think this may have been the official photo). This would have been Paul Dianno's first gig as well.
Pauls last gig was the Ruskin Arms on 7 April 1979 - A well known Maiden fan called Cod was interviewed mentioning that Paul failed to turn up for a gig at the Brecknock on 9 April 1979 and would not again appear with the band.
Paul has since said that he had been in hospital and one of the reasons he was quiet on stage and not into the gigs as much was that he was in pain.

The Soundhouse Tapes were not released until late 1979 and Paul was well out of the band by that time. It would not have made sense to have him listed on the sleeve. Any monies made from the record may well have been put back into the band for sound or stage show.

As mentioned earlier by MikeJwF during Dave Murray's interview. He rattles off four names "Paul, myself, Steve, Doug,....."
one after the other and is cut off. It would make sense that Dave would have added "and Paul Cairns"

For those that might be interested I have some web pages I created.

http://www.maidenrelations.webs.com/ with this site I am trying to list all the recordings made by current and former members of Iron Maiden

http://www.evilways-urchin.webs.com/ My tribute site to Adrians old band Urchin

http://blazerblazer-broadwaybrats.webs.com/ Nickos Blazer Blazer and Adrians Broadway Brats

Note all site are works in progress.
Cheers
Barry
Is there any chance you could post that picture you're talking about?
 

lira

Nomad
Baztac's history is pretty much what I would say, as we worked together on this. Here is the picture with the band outside the studio. I applied some effect because the original is pretty cloudy.

Cambridge 1978_treated.jpg
L-R: Paul Di'Anno, Paul Cairns, Nelson the dog, Dave Murray, Steve Harris, Doug Sampson
 

lira

Nomad
Ok, about Paul Cairns message to Nicko on Facebook, here is what happened: Steve Loopy Newhouse contacted Cairns over there to chat about this forgotten part of the history and meanwhile Paul found that Nicko McBrain's profile and thought was for real! After his message to "Nicko", Loopy advised him to erase that because he was going nowhere. I don't know if the message is still there, tough but yea, it was really him who wrote that.

On one of the conversations with Loopy, the guitarist explained he suffered from his back and it eventually left him quiet onstage. Paul was then hospitalized and Iron Maiden even went to visit him until the day Steve called Cairns and told he was not showing enough enthusiasm and had to fire him. Steve Harris shortened the Mad Mac history to a "suddenly" cut, as suddenly the guy got depressed onstage. Now I hope this helps to clarify a little more.

In my opinion about him being the 2nd TST guitarist... first, nobody forced his brother Hugh Cairns to post on Spaceward Studios forum. It was just there and Baztac pointed me to that. I can't see why his brother would bother writing if Cairns wasn't involved with Maiden at the time. Second, and despising the picture above and Cairns having told he played on all TST songs, Murray would never play like that, Cairns parts are softer and very different from Dave's style.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Since you are members who didn't come here that often: Lira and Baztac (you were a member here for some years but never posted before, I believe), thanks for taking the time and giving your input!

My ears convince me there is someone else (100%), and all the rest that came out of your research certainly supports the possibility that this second person is Paul Cairns.

Now what MikeJwF and others have stated: Dave was cut off?
I wasn't aware of it back then, but now I certainly want to rewatch that!

@Baztac:
I am a bit surprised about you saying that 15 February 1979 might have been Paul Di'Anno's first gig as well. For the simple reason:

Who was the singer during the 1978 gigs?

The Commentary tells there were 3 gigs in 1978 (2 others were cancelled):
http://www.ironmaidencommentary.com/?url=tour00_mfm/dates00_mfm&lang=eng&link=tours
And Dennis Wilcock's last gig was said to be in 1977.

Something is not correct here, or else there was another singer in 1978?

Maybe I have forgotten about something (I don't have the biography near me, nor do I know it by heart)... Or do we have a mysterious 1978 vocalist (also not discussed anywhere else)?

edit:
And, 7 April 1979 (Paul Cairns' last gig) is not mentioned on The Iron Maiden Commentary.
Not that this site is infallible, but I'm just saying. Perhaps you want it to be added?
 

Perun

And the world, unheeding, turns
Staff member
Baztac's history is pretty much what I would say, as we worked together on this. Here is the picture with the band outside the studio. I applied some effect because the original is pretty cloudy.

View attachment 3870
L-R: Paul Di'Anno, Paul Cairns, Nelson the dog, Dave Murray, Steve Harris, Doug Sampson
Hmm, the only one I can make out with some degree of certainty is Steve. But the question that remains is, if Iron Maiden go to great lengths to present their early history with meticulous detail, and make mention of all the people who were in the band and worked with them in the early days, why would they not only leave out, but consciously erase this Paul Cairns?
 

Baztac

Invader
The early Maiden history is full of errors and omissions. A lot of the dates I base my info on are from Melody Maker adverts.

Dennis Wilcock was part of Maiden from Sept 1976 until Spring 1978. He played at the 17 Feb 1978 gig (Gear borrowed from Dogwatch as Maidens gear had previously been stolen).

Then there are three dates in April - 6 April Green Man, Plumstead, 7 April Cart and Horses and 8 April Bridgehouse. I believe the Green Man gig is the one mentioned in the documentaries that Dennis did not turn up to. I think the Bridgehouse gig is Dennis's last gig and would also have been the gig that the bust up with Thunderstick occurred.
Dennis later went on to form V1 alongside Terry Wapram. and recorded at Spaceward. Steve later heard the demo and it influenced his decision to use Spaceward at the end of the year.
I have dates for V1 playing at the Ruskin on 23/9/1978 and Windsor Castle on 7/04/1979.

Steve would have seen Dave playing with Urchin during some gigs at the Brecknock in March 1978. The most likely being the 24 March.
During the summer of 1978 Steve and Dave got back together and met up with Doug Sampson to write and rehearse. The two Pauls would probably have joined later in the year with enough time to rehearse material prior to going to Spaceward.
 

Baztac

Invader
Hmm, the only one I can make out with some degree of certainty is Steve. But the question that remains is, if Iron Maiden go to great lengths to present their early history with meticulous detail, and make mention of all the people who were in the band and worked with them in the early days, why would they not only leave out, but consciously erase this Paul Cairns?
Nelson the Dog is quite recognizable ;-). But on a serious note if you check the heights of the band against the other known photo of Paul Cairns you can see Paul Dianno and Doug are the two tallest, then Dave and Steve and Paul Cairns is the Smallest.

Also they didn't erase Paul as he is mentioned, it is just they haven't gone out of their way to credit him for the Soundhouse Tapes.
 

Perun

And the world, unheeding, turns
Staff member
I'm not saying the early Maiden history is error-free, far from it probably. What I am saying though, is that all the evidence provided here is unconvincing.

The photo is too grainy to make anything out in particular, and even if it is Iron Maiden with Paul Cairns, it does not need to have been taken on NYE 1978. Here's a Doug Sampson quote from Run to the Hills: "First, we gave it a go with this guitarist we tried called Paul Cairns, who we used to call Mad Mac (...) but it was like... I don't know. It just wasn't meant to be. We thought he'd work out OK, 'cause he could play all right; but the minute we got onstage, we knew it wasn't happening. Our first gig was at the Bridgehouse again. It was in the middle of winter and there was about five inches of snow on the ground that night. It was really a bad night and I couldn't blame anyone for staying home, but I got there and Paul hadn't turned up yet. He was off buying a leather belt or something, and he eventually turned up really late, which didn't exactly do him any favours, turning up late for your first gig." But at least Cairns managed to stay the course for more than three months (...) (P. 64) The context places all this in early 1979, after the Soundhouse Tapes were recorded.

The next evidence is that Dave is supposedly cut off when he mentioned him on the Early Days DVD. Why? And why would nobody else have mentioned that in 25 years? It's not like there is no unauthorised or unoffical material concerning the early days out there. You'd think he'd get mentioned somewhere. A cut doesn't mean anything, he could be cut off before saying "and we all jerked off before we got in the studio". Paul Cairns is mentioned in all official histories and biographies, it doesn't make any sense to write him out of the Soundhouse Tapes.

As for the mysterious other guitar player on The Soundhouse Tapes, maybe there was a second guitarist, but maybe it was just somebody helping the boys out, and maybe whoever played didn't even want credit. In any case, we have absolutely no proof that it is Paul Cairns.

All this, forgive me, sounds like somebody who could never handle being kicked from Maiden over thirty years ago, and now trying to somehow capitalise on it.
 

lira

Nomad
Forostar, in researching you may find other inconsistencies in early Maiden history. One of them tells that the November 1977 was the gig where all things came to an end on the Wilcock/Wapram/Harris/Purkis/Moore lineup - the keyboard didn't fit, the drummer busted his solo, after that gig they disbanded... But only part of that really occurred and that was Tony Moore leaving. The band did surive after that. Barry Purkis, the Thunderstick, played at least 5 or 6 gigs. He was a good drummer. If he wasn't, Maiden wouldn't bother calling him back for an audition after Doug Sampson left. Some of these things I researched, others I asked the drummer personally.
 

lira

Nomad
I'm not saying the early Maiden history is error-free, far from it probably. What I am saying though, is that all the evidence provided here is unconvincing.

The photo is too grainy to make anything out in particular, and even if it is Iron Maiden with Paul Cairns, it does not need to have been taken on NYE 1978. Here's a Doug Sampson quote from Run to the Hills: "First, we gave it a go with this guitarist we tried called Paul Cairns, who we used to call Mad Mac (...) but it was like... I don't know. It just wasn't meant to be. We thought he'd work out OK, 'cause he could play all right; but the minute we got onstage, we knew it wasn't happening. Our first gig was at the Bridgehouse again. It was in the middle of winter and there was about five inches of snow on the ground that night. It was really a bad night and I couldn't blame anyone for staying home, but I got there and Paul hadn't turned up yet. He was off buying a leather belt or something, and he eventually turned up really late, which didn't exactly do him any favours, turning up late for your first gig." But at least Cairns managed to stay the course for more than three months (...) (P. 64) The context places all this in early 1979, after the Soundhouse Tapes were recorded.

The next evidence is that Dave is supposedly cut off when he mentioned him on the Early Days DVD. Why? And why would nobody else have mentioned that in 25 years? It's not like there is no unauthorised or unoffical material concerning the early days out there. You'd think he'd get mentioned somewhere. A cut doesn't mean anything, he could be cut off before saying "and we all jerked off before we got in the studio". Paul Cairns is mentioned in all official histories and biographies, it doesn't make any sense to write him out of the Soundhouse Tapes.

As for the mysterious other guitar player on The Soundhouse Tapes, maybe there was a second guitarist, but maybe it was just somebody helping the boys out, and maybe whoever played didn't even want credit. In any case, we have absolutely no proof that it is Paul Cairns.

All this, forgive me, sounds like somebody who could never handle being kicked from Maiden over thirty years ago, and now trying to somehow capitalise on it.
Perun, I think the same way as you when I do my researches. The only evidence to me is the picture portraying the band members and coming through Paul Cairns archives. I could tell by the guitar playing if Tony Parsons were in the recording for example, but not Cairns. So yes, it's difficult to prove. At the same time I highly doubt that Maiden would use a session player or a friend to do the other guitar. Why? They would then use Murray as they did with "Burning Ambition". The other evidence would be if Maiden could confirm it (which I doubt they will). As far as I'm concerned they were contacted, but didn't answer.

The context takes place on early 1979 on Run To The Hills book, but I don't think Mick Wall mentioned the time Paul Cairns joined the group. I have to read that again, tough.

About Dave's cut off, i think you're right, but again... why the cut off? I found it very funny the first time I saw that. It was like 'What...? What did he say after that? Somebody calls the producer now!'

Finally, i really don't think the Cairns brothers are trying to make something out of it 30+ years after TST. Paul never really showed any interest on that before Baztac, myself, Stjepan and then Loopy contacted him. It was just Hugh Cairns asking that on the Spaceward forum and so we basically took the history from this point.
 

MikeJwF

Invader
No one can really say that Dave was about to say specifically Paul Cairns for sure, for now that can only be speculated. It's just looks like he was about to say another name (or possibly more). All this really proves along with the other evidence and eye witness accounts is to keep an open mind about the subject.
 

Perun

And the world, unheeding, turns
Staff member
Perun, I think the same way as you when I do my researches. The only evidence to me is the picture portraying the band members and coming through Paul Cairns archives.
OK, I hope you didn't take this the wrong way - it's by no means a criticism of your research, only that I'm personally not convinced by the evidence.. yet.

The context takes place on early 1979 on Run To The Hills book, but I don't think Mick Wall mentioned the time Paul Cairns joined the group. I have to read that again, tough.
OK, I had another look, and what is written in Wall's book can be read either way. The passage about Cairns is part of a context of Maiden looking for a second guitarist, which is not clearly embedded chronologically.
 

SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
Does Di'Anno have long-ish hair in that picture?
Who on that photograph would you say is Di'Anno? I can't make out anyone but Steve....Is that far right one supposed to be Dave? (the only one with blonde hair) looks nothing like him

Everyone sure this isn't an old photo of Smiler or something? Steve's band prior to Maiden? :confused:
 

MikeJwF

Invader
Underneath it's listed left to right with Di'Anno listed at the far left. You're right though, the only 2 I can really make out are Steve and Doug and the both also happened to be in Smiler.
 

MikeJwF

Invader
I'm looking through all of the thank yous from the cover of the 2 disc version or Best of the Beast realesed in 1996. These are the thank yous that seem to coincide with all of the former members at the time:

Paul Day
Dave Sullivan
Terry Rance
Ron Matthews
Bib Sawyer
Dennis Wilcock
Tony Moore
Terry Wapram
Barry Purkis
Doug Sampson
Paul Cairns
Tony Parsons
Paul Di"Anno
Clive Burr
Dennis Stratton
Adrian Smith
Bruce Dickinson

Not sure if that means anything, I just wanted to point that out.
 

lira

Nomad
OK, I hope you didn't take this the wrong way - it's by no means a criticism of your research, only that I'm personally not convinced by the evidence.. yet.
No problem if you criticize my research. All I want to make clear is that I am just another collector who works to have a definition on things that aren't clear. The only truth is the conflict point, parts of the history that are unknown or became unclear. You know, Early Days says the lineup with Murray and Sawyer is a 1976' lineup or Paul Di'Anno lineup is from 1977. That's an official product but (and if) someone digs deeper in history will find the dates wrong. I'm into this.

We may have no immediate proof of things, but we have to try our best to eliminate what's wrong if we care enough. The results are always positive.
 

Brigantium

Grim Reaper
Staff member
Loopy's blog is interesting, mainly for the general anecdotes more than anything. Funny he doesn't remember Cairns being there, although he sounds convinced it's him in the picture, and that the picture was taken in Cambridge
 

lira

Nomad
He also has one picture in which appears Cairns' right arm at Ruskin Arms (if I'm not wrong).
 

SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
How do people find out it is Cairns right arm? That sounds a bit..well, out there :D Also wouldn't you say that the photograph you posted above could be Smiler instead of Maiden? When the only two recognizable people are Harris and Doug, who both played in Smiler?
 
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