Starblind
- Thread starter Travis The Dragon
- Start date
Taker
Cannon Fodder
This song just keeps growing in stature every time I listen to it. It is actually number 2 on my personal list of all time favorites (after Paschendale), and I forsee a possible number 1 spot in the future. Even after dozens of playings, I feel that I have not fully digested this tune, but every single time I hear it, it floors me with it's brilliance. I feel that the lyrics are the real attraction to this song, although I'm not at all minimizing the strenghth of the music. It's the total Maiden package... a masterpiece.
RobertMfromLI
Invader
LooseCannon said:
Wow! I only have one disagreement really. I'm not sure the song is making a stance on religion (not talking about "organized religion" - on that it definitely has a "few" things to say) or promises of an afterlife (though knowing their storytelling style, I must concede it might be - they often, as you point out, tell stories from others' perspectives). It is still quite possible that the song is telling people to instead, truly live our lives, and live them properly, and not expect some magical salvation for hail mary's or anything else like that, because "Whatever God you know, He knows you better than you believe" and isn't going to be fooled by empty platitudes offered on one's death bed.
Best,
Rob
Jonszat said:
I really didn't like the song at first (well, not compared to other music, but in that Maiden-ish sorta way where I hold it to a much higher standard). Now, it's one of my all time favorites. But it took a while to grow on me. Finding versions on YouTube with lyrics and singing through it a few times helped. Finding others who shared my view of what the lyrics meant or helped me expand my view of what they meant helped also (in making it an even more powerful song with a very powerful story, and Bruce telling it masterfully).
Jonszat said:
"Edit: I do think that the sky is blue on a sunny day..."
Sorry, I just had ta! Of all the drummers I truly admire, there are rare moments he's not brilliant (well, except when comparing him to himself of course - then his performances start to vary from "ok" to "decent" to "brilliant" and everything inbetween).
Play Classics! said:
I think it's arrangement suits the theme and story. Think about it... one is about to die, and their "life is flashing before their eyes" while they think on the meaning of it all. It's going to be hectic, have a lot going on, and have little room to breathe.
That's what I truly love about their arrangements, and Bruce's delivery (and how Nicko keeps a beat or "counterbeat") that suits the mood of each section of the songs. It makes me FEEL what's going on the way I would expect to feel it if it were me as the storyteller/subject.
caragen said:
On the verge of Eternity... about to truly re-become one with the Universe as our life goes on as a part of the very fabric of existence... in scientific terms, it would be that energy cannot be destroyed... the starstuff we are continues...
caragen said:
Hmmm... I'm having a tough time with this one... perhaps we are (born/exist as) the blanks of sin? It fits the overall story. Especially with the next line... do we choose to let the crucible of pain (this world and it's "standard" method of existence) let the cycle begin again, or choose a life to live?
That's a good point, Jeff.
And I think Rob has a good point about the "whatever God you know" line; something about if you believe in an omnipresent god, he or she or whatever is going to know your sins and such, no matter what platitudes you offer.
However, I firmly believe that the song is still taking a stance on religion in general - because that line is then immediately followed by the "in your once and future grave/you'll fall endlessly deceived". Taken all four lines as part of one meaningful stanza, you see that it doesn't matter what god you believe in, you will be forever in your grave, lied to.
Also, I have a new thought about the opening stanzas after the intro.
And I think Rob has a good point about the "whatever God you know" line; something about if you believe in an omnipresent god, he or she or whatever is going to know your sins and such, no matter what platitudes you offer.
However, I firmly believe that the song is still taking a stance on religion in general - because that line is then immediately followed by the "in your once and future grave/you'll fall endlessly deceived". Taken all four lines as part of one meaningful stanza, you see that it doesn't matter what god you believe in, you will be forever in your grave, lied to.
Also, I have a new thought about the opening stanzas after the intro.
RobertMfromLI
Invader
LooseCannon said:
Oh, I agree, definitely taking a stance about religion. What I meant was, not so much taking a stance on beliefs (a.k.a. religion, as most people would interpret the word) but taking a stance on religion as it really is - an organized, controlled, institution.
LooseCannon said:
But it can also be interpreted to mean fall (into hell, where you will be) endlessly deceived. Which fits the religion, as Lucifer is supposed to be the deceiver. Inotherwords (looking at the whole), if you believe the lies you are told by those preachers telling you platitudes will get you into heaven, you will find that God is not fooled since he knows you better than you know yourself, and instead you'll end up falling into hell, endlessly deceived (or in this case, the deception would continue... from/by preacher to/by fallen angel).
But, I'd still say either interpretation could work (yours or mine). And I've gained an even greater appreciation today of their work. It's pretty impressive when the story can have so much meaning yet evoke such deep conversations at the same time.
Put it into the whole context, though. Aside from the mention of Christ, which is certainly an anti-establishment line, the entire song is religion-neutral. It's not coming at it from any particular religion. If you were a believer in the Greek pantheon, it'd be equally applicable.
You have to filter in what we know about Bruce. Bruce is a technophile and a non-believer, and I think that really puts the lyrics into perspective. He's coming at it from the attitude that religion hasn't really helped society. I don't think he'd deny that there are good aspects, but in general, it's kept us petty and brutal towards each other (the hanging Damocles, hmm?), repressed progress and science, and basically, the less we pay attention to religion, the better our society has become (that is a generalization, I know, but just, take it as a basic statement and not a full-written thesis).
Oh, I forgot the end of my point.
Because the Judeo-Christian mythology is really the only one that abscribes to a hell, and the song itself isn't written to support or deny specifically that myth system, it's a little bit of a leap to assume they are referring to hell with the aforementioned lines.
You have to filter in what we know about Bruce. Bruce is a technophile and a non-believer, and I think that really puts the lyrics into perspective. He's coming at it from the attitude that religion hasn't really helped society. I don't think he'd deny that there are good aspects, but in general, it's kept us petty and brutal towards each other (the hanging Damocles, hmm?), repressed progress and science, and basically, the less we pay attention to religion, the better our society has become (that is a generalization, I know, but just, take it as a basic statement and not a full-written thesis).
Oh, I forgot the end of my point.
Because the Judeo-Christian mythology is really the only one that abscribes to a hell, and the song itself isn't written to support or deny specifically that myth system, it's a little bit of a leap to assume they are referring to hell with the aforementioned lines.
RobertMfromLI
Invader
LooseCannon said:
That's why I think either of our interpretations could be right.
Or perhaps I should say that both of our interpretations could be right at the same time? Inotherwords, perhaps his intent or personal belief on it is as you state, and his choice of wording is such that it still applies to those looking for something religious in the interpretation? Or, he's killing two stones with one bird, so to speak.
I had to make an addendum to my previous post.
It is possible that Bruce is coming at this from two angles; if anything, I think he wrote it to be specifically difficult to sort out. Like all good poetry, it's a little random, a little broken, and doesn't work perfectly. However, I do think I'm right on my interpretation. The song was like a lightning bolt when I really heard it the first time (hell, the first time through the album it completely unimpressed me), and now....it moves me.
It is possible that Bruce is coming at this from two angles; if anything, I think he wrote it to be specifically difficult to sort out. Like all good poetry, it's a little random, a little broken, and doesn't work perfectly. However, I do think I'm right on my interpretation. The song was like a lightning bolt when I really heard it the first time (hell, the first time through the album it completely unimpressed me), and now....it moves me.
RobertMfromLI
Invader
LooseCannon said:
Actually, I thought about that. While a common myth of the uniqueness of such, the simple historical fact is the Hell of the Judeo-Christian belief system is based on the beliefs of other belief systems. The Norse had their Hel (and Purgatory -> Niffelheim) - just as the JC system does. So did the Greeks and Romans (Hades). So did most belief systems that predate Judaism. They each had their own heavens too... though of course, entry into such was based on different terms. For instance, for the Norse, it was dying well in battle.
It's actually applicable to many religious systems, past and present.
LooseCannon said:
I didnt give it a second listen for quite some time - now it's skyrocketed to one of my favorite songs.
RobertMfromLI said:
I really more meant common belief systems today (Buddhism, Shintoism, Confucianism, and Hinduism) don't really have a "hell" - it's a Euro-centric custom.
RobertMfromLI
Invader
LooseCannon said:
OK, ya got me on that one.
Jeffmetal
Ancient Mariner
It's funny how views of the world or of words when associated with a person can be twisted; LC mentions about Bruce being a technophile and a non-believer (I understand perfectly why the later adjective is atributted to people like Bruce and many of us who has affinity with such ideals and opinions), but isn't it totally surreal that believers are always moaning, awaiting for the gold at the rainbow's end, provided by someone else 'cos they really don't believe in nothing - specially themselves - but illusions and lies, though never admiting it, while a non-believer, like Bruce, achieved and achieves so much exactly by believing in himself and running the miles coming his way and surpassing all the obstacles without relying on fallacies and promises of a perfect, harmless existence?
LooseCannon said:
To raise the nerd-level here, the Judeo-Christian conception of "Hell" is thought to derive from a mix of Greek and Zoroastrian motifs. So it is actually something that derives from the same background that Hinduism comes from, only that it took a different turn. In any case, "hell" is actually not even present in original Judaism, but entered the world of common belief very late in the evolution of religion, and even in a stage that is already fairly well documented. Which means that you could reconstruct historical predecessors of our own Euro-centric background that do not know the idea of "hell".
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
@Jeff, either you do something or you wait for someone else to do it for you.
