Senjutsu - 3rd September 2021

Maturin

Sköldpadda
Well, I think the chorus in "For the Greater Good of God" is meant to represent "human suffering" - that is what the song is all about anyway to me, to canalise that feeling, you know make a clear point about the message that is presented during the verses? Bruce sounding strained during the chorus is just a part of this effort - it's a theatrical production.

But this song is not for everyone! It's definitely challenging. But if you pay attention to the message that is presented - I think you can grow to accept it.

Without the repetition it would not have the same effect. Harris' best epic. It's somewhat funny there's such a difference between the Bruce penned lyrics to which you need an encyclopedia to decipher some allusions at times. There's beauty in Steve Harris writing clearly and hammering the point home. It doesn't make it simple, or bad.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
To be honest I do not think Steve has done a decent song for ages. Even his latest example TRATB contains too many redundant parts that do not really add anything to the song..
I think The Red and the Black is perfect. I really, really like that song. Much better and more interesting and less repetitive than Rime,

Of course he does not need me to tell him what to do, but I just don't think that for over 20 years now his songs have any right to be as long as they are.
I like the long songs better than the short ones, it gives more time to put things in there, longer solos, different parts and such

The one thing that bores me is when the intro is rehashed as the outtro. And often I don't like Janick's acoustic intros, they are very simple and very repetitive.
 

Black Bart

Ancient Mariner
DOD at the time was considered a disappointing follow up to BNW
Interesting use of the passive voice, without an agent. I want to reply: "By whom?". Well, I don't think what you are saying is so undubitable, unless you count music journalists' (who sometimes are just mere forum users that are more loudmouthed than the others) opinions as better than yours. The cover art was so peculiar that it was rather unanimously criticized, granted, but there are a lot of people who found the album itself more interesting than its predecessor which, in my opinion, goes a bit flat after the fourth song, while the "stronger" songs on DoD (once again, it is subjective) are more evenly distributed throughout the album.
EDIT : by "stronger" songs, I mean those which turn out to be selected live... which are very often those I prefer myself (lucky me), at least in the reunion era.


Its always the one that tops every publications list at #1 for "reunion" albums. It could be argued its slightly overrated but there isn't a single bad track on it imo
I tend to have the same opinion (except for "The Mercenary") but I think that, overall, DoD has at least as many highs as BNW. On the one hand, the first four songs off BNW form a great sequence, which is difficult to follow (hence what I think of "The Mercenary", added to the fact that I find it boring live too). On the other hand, I also count 4 great songs on DoD : "Rainmaker", "Dance of Death", "Paschendale" and "Journeyman" AND the rest, though flawed from my point of view, contains very enjoyable moments.

All in all, I think our appreciations depends on how we listen to an album in the first place : listening to them in sequence, from start to finish, DoD rules BNW in my opinion (though the "confrontation" is diverted by that of the sleeve covers - virtually, the best against the worst as far as albums go). Track by track, picking one song at a time without listening to the others, I admit BNW more than holds up its own. And what is interesting precisely is that the two albums appeared at a period over which the ways of listening to music were profoundly changing.
 
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SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
“We had a few ideas. We went into the studio and tried them out, and when they worked, we just recorded straight away. So while we were rehearsing, everything was being recorded – the tape was rolling the whole time."




“Steve would literally lock himself away for two or three days, and we’d all turn up and play pinball,” he continues. “And then he’d say, ‘I think I’ve got one, chaps. Oi! Everybody in the studio!’ Boom. The stuff I wrote with Adrian was a bit more conventional – we’d stand around and play guitar and sing and do that until we thought we had something. Then we’d rehearse it and put it straight down. It’s more organic, if you like. Steve tends to be quite detailed and meticulous in exactly how he wants it.”


This sounds so random to me. It is not that they are a punk band, we are talking about 12 minutes songs being recorded here. TWOTW is a solid track but nothing spectacular. I think Maiden still got great ideas but they tend to spend too little time in the arrangements and the elaboration of their music.
At first I also didn't like how this sounded either but I figured; well this is how you make music nowadays when you're six blokes in your mid sixties living all across the planet and you don't really have the time nor the interest in hanging around a studio for longer than you have to. So they meet up and throw things at the wall and see what sticks.

Would I like to see them spend more time on the arrangements and the recording, absolutely, but the more I think about it, and since things can't be any different, I also really like the idea of Maiden presenting us with an album that is a snapshot of their creativity flowing right there and then. There must be a lot of pressure working that way, because what if the material is not up to your own standards as a musician - on the other hand it must also be awesome if you can tap into that "zone" and you feel like everything comes together.

What people actually think about the albums afterwards I feel isn't that important to Maiden anymore. If you like it great, buy the stuff, go see the tour. if you don't - well too bad.
 
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Josh

Ancient Mariner
I happen to really like Dance Of Death. It was Maiden truly doing something different and the pivot album that spawned their full on prog approach. As good as Brave New World is, it's still somewhat vanilla Maiden. Not that it's a bad thing because at the time, it's exactly what was needed. I just find everything after it more interesting.
 

shadowpants

DEEPER GREY CAME TO MOURN
Interesting use of the passive voice, without an agent. I want to reply: "By whom?". Well, I don't think what you are saying is so undubitable, unless you count music journalists' (who sometimes are just mere forum users that are more loudmouthed than the others) opinions as better than yours. The cover art was so peculiar that it was rather unanimously criticized, granted, but there are a lot of people who found the album itself more interesting than its predecessor which, in my opinion, goes a bit flat after the fourth song, while the "stronger" songs on DoD (once again, it is subjective) are more evenly distributed throughout the album.
EDIT : by "stronger" songs, I mean those which turn out to be selected live... which are very often those I prefer myself (lucky me), at least in the reunion era.



I tend to have the same opinion (except for "The Mercenary") but I think that, overall, DoD has at least as many highs as BNW. On the one hand, the first four songs off BNW form a great sequence, which is difficult to follow (hence what I think of "The Mercenary", added to the fact that I find it boring live too). On the other hand, I also count 4 great songs on DoD : "Rainmaker", "Dance of Death", "Paschendale" and "Journeyman" AND the rest, though flawed from my point of view, contains very enjoyable moments.

All in all, I think our appreciations depends on how we listen to an album in the first place : listening to them in sequence, from start to finish, DoD rules BNW in my opinion (though the "confrontation" is diverted by that of the sleeve covers - virtually, the best against the worst as far as albums go). Track by track, picking one song at a time without listening to the others, I admit BNW may appear as "better". And what is interesting precisely is that the two albums appeared at a period over which the ways of listening to music were profoundly changing.
Interesting insights here. I have a feeling we're gonna have to get this 'which is the best reunion album' or ranking out of our system b4 Senjutsu hits. I'm listening to TRATB as I type this...live chapter version. Wasn't sure when I heard it on the album first...but fk me its pure fun live. They're all grinning like loons. Very captivating and loose Harris stuff. I have a feeling reading the background behind BOS..how they weren't really prepared going in, and Harris going through some difficulties, that TRATB was fairly quickly pulled together when he saw how much time Bruce was putting into EOTC. But it turned out cool in fairness. Harris in upbeat mode. I also think that with Senjutsu....he's coming in with all guns blazing. With the memory of Adrians' Paschendale, Bruces Empire etc, he has something to prove to himself and everyone else. I'd say Dave is like....ah writing smiting, I'm off to play golf with Nick, but I'll bring the fire on solo's ok guys. Janick looks around at all this effort and 'silent' competition, and realises he needs to focus his guitar playing....reign the madness in and produce his best work. Bring it on guys :jedi:
 

SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
Pretty sure "We had a few ideas" means notes, demo, etc. and not just a thought in their heads....

Of course but the interview also points in the direction of a lot of spontaneity - I mean Bruce literally says that they'd be jamming until something good came up - then rehearse and record it. Steve leaving for "two or three" days in the middle of the sessions also shows that he definitly didn't come down to the place with the stuff all done - but he'd be working on it right up until the the tape was rolling.
 

DJMayes

Ancient Mariner
In reply to the DOD stuff earlier:

I would go as far as to say Dance of Death is one of my top 5 of all the Iron Maiden albums. The title track and Paschendale are some of the bands absolute best, and I don't think Face In The Sand is too far behind, either. Rainmaker, No More Lies and Montsegur are all great. Wildest Dreams, New Frontier, Gates of Tomorrow and Age of Innocence are not on the same level, granted, but I think Maiden have put out far more egregious filler in the past. Journeyman is a difficult one to pin down due to how different it is, but I certainly don't take issue to it.

I will probably always be confused why this is the controversial album and AMOLAD is the beloved one.
 

Oca

Educated Fool
Of course but the interview also points in the direction of a lot of spontaneity - I mean Bruce literally says that they'd be jamming until something good came up - then rehearse and record it. Steve leaving for "two or three" days in the middle of the sessions also shows that he definitly didn't come down to the place with the stuff all done - but he'd be working on it right up until the the tape was rolling.
Not everyone needs to do a pre-production demo with full arrangements. When I write, I have a basic idea and structure, then I present it in rehearsal and we work it out as a band. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be loose, plodding or uninteresting, on the other hand you get great feedback from the rest of your band and you work the music out as a team rather than have a 100% set idea that you “need” to hammer down exactly as intended on the pre-prod. If the method works for them, then I’m fine with it. I know H and Bruce often have finished (more or less) demos that they have a specific idea and intention on sound and performance, but it’s not every time that idea is feasible in a band situation.

From what I can gather from TWOTW, they seem to have put more effort in the rehearsal part of the process than on TBOS. They sound tighter, more on time and generally more cohesive than on all of the songs on TBOS (sloppy timing, dead notes, wrong (!) notes etc).
If a high sealing on the creative side is partnered with a more structured rehearsing and actually getting everything right and not “that’ll do”, this album will be killer.
 
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In reply to the DOD stuff earlier:

I would go as far as to say Dance of Death is one of my top 5 of all the Iron Maiden albums. The title track and Paschendale are some of the bands absolute best, and I don't think Face In The Sand is too far behind, either. Rainmaker, No More Lies and Montsegur are all great. Wildest Dreams, New Frontier, Gates of Tomorrow and Age of Innocence are not on the same level, granted, but I think Maiden have put out far more egregious filler in the past. Journeyman is a difficult one to pin down due to how different it is, but I certainly don't take issue to it.

I will probably always be confused why this is the controversial album and AMOLAD is the beloved one.
I played both these two today and DOD was better than I remembered. AMOLAD is heavier though, has greater highs but deeper lows. Some songs are a drag whereas DOD is more upbeat but lightweight. Like them both about the same.
 

Iron Lurker

Ancient Mariner
If Bruce wonders if all of Senjutsu should be played live than I think the band will deliver us something really special. Maybe some new elements but will be very much Maiden. If it pisses of the pLaY cLaSsiCs and the Powerslave 2 bunch so be it. I cannot wait for Sept. 3rd....
 

Maturin

Sköldpadda
If Bruce wonders if all of Senjutsu should be played live than I think the band will deliver us something really special. Maybe some new elements but will be very much Maiden. If it pisses of the pLaY cLaSsiCs and the Powerslave 2 bunch so be it. I cannot wait for Sept. 3rd....

If I recall correctly, he said the same thing about The Book of Souls. I don't think they will play the full album live.
 

Oca

Educated Fool
It’s really a bummer that people seem to only come on here when Maiden is about to put out a new album just to complain about their new music.
That they haven’t heard yet… Except one song that’s probably not significant for the albums direction.
 

DJMayes

Ancient Mariner
If I recall correctly, he said the same thing about The Book of Souls. I don't think they will play the full album live.
I recall going to see Maiden at Download 2016. Disturbed played earlier that day, and I remember people in the crowd losing it (and not in the good way) when they brought out violins for their cover of The Sound Of Silence. To this day I'm sad we didn't get to see the reaction to a piano being wheeled out for EOTC.

I don't really mind if they go full album on the next tour or if they only play 5 or 6, but in the latter case some deep cuts would be nice.
 

Travis The Dragon

"Can you see them riding. Riding next to you!"
I wouldn't count on all of it being played live, but they could do 7 or 8 songs from Senjutsu instead of the usual 6. There were easily 2 songs on pretty much every new album tour that could have be removed for that and still keep the classics in. Here are examples of the post reunion tours: Sign Of The Cross and The Clansman from the Brave New World tour, Lord Of The Flies and Brave New World from the Dance Of Death tour, Dance Of Death, The Wicker Man and Blood Brothers from the Final Frontier tour, and Powerslave and Children Of The Damned from The Book Of Souls tour.
 

Iron Lurker

Ancient Mariner
If I recall correctly, he said the same thing about The Book of Souls. I don't think they will play the full album live.
I do know they said they would never play Empire live so I can’t say say anything about the TBOS statement. Also, I don’t think they will play Senjutsu live or that they should. Just that Bruce seems to think it’s worthy of doing so and that is what excites me.
 

Iron Lurker

Ancient Mariner
It’s really a bummer that people seem to only come on here when Maiden is about to put out a new album just to complain about their new music.
Indeed! Another thing for me (and this doesn’t apply to this board per se) is I no longer have the patience or desire to deal with Maiden “fans” who feel the band hasn’t produced anything of merit since 1988.
 
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