Senjutsu - 3rd September 2021

Azas said:
Guys, if I remember correctly, all forum members, who are not so happy with Maiden sound, compared Priest and Maiden in terms of album (specifically Firepower) production, not songwriting itself. Let's not deviate from that. You say Firepower sounds clinical, artificial and not 'real'. We say it's best produced Priest album in many many years. With all that studio magic and trickery. That's fine. We can agree to disagree.
In my book, studio album must be polished. That's all.
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That's the truest truth that has ever been spoken.
 
redandtheblack92 said:
The songs about the Red Baron and the pilot himself had said that his plane climbs like a monkey and turns like a devil. Why are Maiden getting shit for this ? They’re just re-quoting the Barons lines.
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Because the line sounds a bit funny and the band dared to lean into that in the live show.

We can't possibly be having that because Iron Maiden is a serious band.
 
Perun said:
People never counted bars
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If this is about my comment on the Stratego thread I'd like to clarify:

I love the reunion era and would take all the reunion albums (except TFF) over most of the 80's albums. At the same time, it's pretty obvious that more and more mistakes appear on the studio albums. Take the copy/pasted dead note on Speed Of Light; the right rhythm guitar on When The Wild Wind Blows at 6:10-ish that changes chords too early; Nicko's drumbeat on the first chorus of If Eternity Should Fail, or, as mentioned, a seemingly random change in guitar playing in Stratego, at a point of the song where it doesn't make much sense, suggesting a mistake instead of a conscious decision. I didn't intend on bashing the song, noticing the mistake just made me aware of the fact, that once again mistakes that are easy to fix could find their way on the album. I even prefaced my comment with "I might be jumping the gun and we'll have to wait for a live version for a final verdict" :p

My only gripe, production-wise, with Stratego is that Bruce could be a bit louder. I adore everything else about the song and, recency bias aside, I'll be absolutely satisfied with Senjutsu if the rest of the album will come close to Stratego. As much as I love Maiden, I think there is legitimate discussion to be had about the way they record their newer albums. Of course they can keep the live feeling if they want and they certainly don't need a modern metal production, but at least record enough takes so that obvious mistakes don't land on studio albums.

If people want to lump this thought process together with the other irrational criticisms, so be it, it's not for me to decide. I just think that some criticisms are more valid than others.
 
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One of the things that makes Maiden who they are is fact that they are Real Live Band with each member's important. I mean they never used click track according to Nicko, so the song has it's own breath, then on every song you hear all three amigos playing both rhythm and lead guitars, they've never recorded rhythms quad-tracked by one of guitarists to make in sound tighter. And that's making them unique. I agree, that they're not sounding modernly precise, but I'm not sure if I want to hear that modern sounding Maiden. Maiden is Maiden! Up The Irons!
 
MegBegb said:
They leave mistakes, but they're also sounds very tasty. Like Nicko's "fookin' missed it" in outro of TTLBLAH...
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That is completely fine, it's also on the end of the song (and the end of the record for that matter).

I'm not saying Maiden should record like some Tech Death Metal band, not at all. I just want a little bit more care with the mistakes on studio albums, since we all know that they are more than capable to play everything they write. Just a couple more takes so that we can get an album that sounds both live (since that is what Steve wants) but also polished, since that's what a studio album is about.

Now that I think of it: there's a certain irony in having studio albums recorded live, warts and all, with some mistakes, but at the same time having live albums like RIR or LAD with overdubs, copy/pasted or rerecorded vocals etc. :lol:
 
Vaenyr said:
That is completely fine, it's also on the end of the song (and the end of the record for that matter).

I'm not saying Maiden should record like some Tech Death Metal band, not at all. I just want a little bit more care with the mistakes on studio albums, since we all know that they are more than capable to play everything they write. Just a couple more takes so that we can get an album that sounds both live (since that is what Steve wants) but also polished, since that's what a studio album is about.

Now that I think of it: there's a certain irony in having studio albums recorded live, warts and all, with some mistakes, but at the same time having live albums like RIR or LAD with overdubs, copy/pasted or rerecorded vocals etc. :lol:
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I could not agree more with your last paragraph. It's so fuckig ironic
 
Vaenyr said:
Take the copy/pasted dead note on Speed Of Light; the right rhythm guitar on When The Wild Wind Blows at 6:10-ish that changes chords too early; Nicko's drumbeat on the first chorus of If Eternity Should Fail, or, as mentioned, a seemingly random change in guitar playing in Stratego, at a point of the song where it doesn't make much sense, suggesting a mistake instead of a conscious decision.
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I never heard any of these things. I honestly can't relate to this sort of listening to music. I'm not saying you shouldn't or that it's wrong, it's just completely foreign to me.
 
Perun said:
I never heard any of these things. I honestly can't relate to this sort of listening to music. I'm not saying you shouldn't or that it's wrong, it's just completely foreign to me.
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All good, listening to music is a subjective experience after all.

It's not like I'm sitting there with a notepad ready to analyze each note and scrutinize everything. Those are just some things that I've come to notice over the years over hundreds of plays. Of course I notice all the great performances too, those I'll mention in the individual song threads though. I guess, I've become a bit hypercritical in picking out "mistakes" ever since I started recording music myself.
 
Vaenyr said:
Now that I think of it: there's a certain irony in having studio albums recorded live, warts and all, with some mistakes, but at the same time having live albums like RIR or LAD with overdubs, copy/pasted or rerecorded vocals etc. :lol:
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You're being slightly facetious. Maiden do not record their albums completely live, warts and all. They do record songs, or parts of songs, live but those mainly don't include overdubs, solos and vocal parts. And Kevin does correct mistakes in the studio.

Those "errors" listed above are just pure nitpicking and wouldn't be noticed by 99% of listeners. Not surprising seeing as Kevin or Steve didn't even notice them. A missed beat or one guitar out of three hitting a bum note does not a poor production make.
 
If you, like myself, are a musician and have recorded several albums and countless demos, you tend to get a bit anal regarding technical stuff like production and performance. It’s my own fault and I try not to over analyze music, but it’s always in the back of my head and sometimes I wish I could just turn it of and enjoy the music a bit more and not be distracted by these “warts” and production choices. I kinda envy folks that have no idea what I’m talking about when trying to explain where there are mistakes and crappy mixing :)
 
Spaldy said:
You're being slightly facetious. Maiden do not record their albums completely live, warts and all. They do record songs, or parts of songs, live but those mainly don't include overdubs, solos and vocal parts. And Kevin does correct mistakes in the studio.

Those "errors" listed above are just pure nitpicking and wouldn't be noticed by 99% of listeners. Not surprising seeing as Kevin or Steve didn't even notice them. A missed beat or one guitar out of three hitting a bum note does not a poor production make.
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I'm not trying to argue in bad faith, I can see how saying "warts and all" is probably too exaggerated.

The bum note in SOL has been discussed a lot on this forum, at least I've seen it mentioned often enough.

I want to make clear that I don't believe my judgement is better than anyone else's. Everyone listens to music differently and that is a good thing, otherwise we wouldn't have a lot to talk about, would we?
I'm basically saying, if I had one wish and could change something about new releases it would be to have some tighter performances, that's all.
 
Guys, the sound is muddy

"It is just your opinion"

Ok, but in places the vocals are too buried too

"You don't understand why they do it, do you? It's cause the higer notes would create more tention later"

Ok, so they found this way of writing that noone else knew about, right?

"Yes, and you are a Play Classics kind of guy"

But I do not really expect them to play the classics, I just find the change in the sound moving from an older album to the new ones disturbing.

"It's cause you do not know how to listen to music"

But I am listneing to music for 35 years now. I never had an issue like that.

"It's because they play live in the studio, you are not a producer so you don't use the right terms anyway"

Ok, but I am a long term fan who just wants to enjoy the music. I've always said that their ideas are still top notch but the songs get a bit boring by repeating the same patrts again and again

" YOU JUST DON'T GET IT, DO YOU??"

Well, I guess you are right. It is that I prefer the production sound of Tallica and Priest more.

"OK, NOW YOU'VE DONE IT. YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF S$%^T, HOW DARE YOU COMPARE MAIDEN TO OTHER BANDS??? THEY PLAY MECHANICALY AND THE SOUND IS PROCESSED."

But I really enjoy something that comes out of the speakers and sounds good and clear. Is it so bad to actually want some clarity and expect a high profile band ti have a technically balaned sound? Do you know that H and B complained about the sound? Did you listen to Bruce saying that people told him the Perchant is a good song, and he was surprised cause THERE IS A LOT OF REPETITION IN IT??? I am not saying I have a problem with people liking what Maiden do, I just feel it could have been much better if they stopped being yes men to Steve.

"OK, YOU PROBALBY ALSO EDIT SONGS AND LISTEN TO THEM OUT OF ORDER,RIGHT?"

Yes, I kind of do from time to time, you know I never had such an issue with older albums.

"OK, YOU OLD CLASSIC MAIDEN GUYS, YOUR COMPLAINTS BORE US"

But I am also bored by people just not taking different opinions.

"OK, CLEAN YOUR DESK, YOU ARE BLOCKED.

:)
 
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DJMayes said:
Because the line sounds a bit funny and the band dared to lean into that in the live show.

We can't possibly be having that because Iron Maiden is a serious band.
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People and their thought process. Their ignorance (about Barons quote) just makes you wonder sometimes.
 
Gk1 said:
The point is that they actually understood that DM was not good sonic wise and they rectified it on the next album.
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It was discussed previously, but please find it here again:
loudwire.com

Bruce Dickinson - 'The Black Album' Pushed Metal Into Mainstream

He praised the record around its 30th anniversary.
loudwire.com loudwire.com

Metallica and Maiden are on two different paths, since decades now, in terms of satisfying their listeners. Metallica has to appeal to a wide audience, they decided to invest into a polished sound and based on how that band functions, they indeed need a producer in full mode.

Maiden did not choose that path. That's it. It's more than a sound issue, it's how they function.
 
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