Russia invades Ukraine
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____no5
Free Man
Biden played his part as part of a plan laid out decades before. There is continuation of US push that led to that war since 2004 at least. Under Bush was the first color revolution plus the invitation to join NATO, Maidan was under Obama (with Biden -Blinken -Nuland already very active in Ukraine affairs), Trump was the first to give publicly lethal aid and under Biden the whole thing exploded.
Except that Biden was the worst of all, with very limited perception and understanding of the world, zero diplomacy.
Taking the above into account I don’t have high hopes for Trump; he will continue the agenda. Just he will be a bit smarter, as anyone would be after Biden, that’s all. And less of a warmonger. I hope.
Except that Biden was the worst of all, with very limited perception and understanding of the world, zero diplomacy.
Taking the above into account I don’t have high hopes for Trump; he will continue the agenda. Just he will be a bit smarter, as anyone would be after Biden, that’s all. And less of a warmonger. I hope.
Yes, the terrible plan to let the Ukrainians *checks notes* determine their own destiny democratically. Those evil dogs.
____no5
Free Man
Except that the plan was never about democracy nor the National Endowment for Democracy is about democracy. It's about domination, divide and conquer, imperialism.
US having stationed troops in 150+ countries around the world and claim that they bid for democracy is an evil lie.
US having stationed troops in 150+ countries around the world and claim that they bid for democracy is an evil lie.
that's actually insane, and Russian propaganda. The USA isn't perfect, but up until 12 days ago protected the liberal democratic order, and legitimately expanded it in countries in Europe and Asia. Yes, the USA stationed soldiers in some of those countries. 150 is an insane number and I do not believe anywhere close to true, not at any one time, but there are Canadian soldiers stationed in many countries, and Dutch, and so on. That's what an alliance is. It's a bloc, but at least it's a bloc where people choose their government.
I'm getting really, really tired of the propaganda.
I'm getting really, really tired of the propaganda.
Already addressed this shit in a post you're too busy to reply to.
____no5
Free Man
@LooseCannon First of all USA still protects the democratic order and freedom of speech at least in the interior. Nothing will change so drastically as you imply because of an election.
Secondly US imperialism is a well documented fact, not propaganda.
I'm equally really, really tired to get accused of Russian or whatever propaganda for everything outside the US mainstream narrative.
It's counter productive for the engagement and not a noble tactic. Not too respectful either.
Every country or bloc sells its propaganda and you reproduce your fair share in my view. But I choose not to say it (or at least not repeat it again and again) out of respect. Not to you or anyone else here.
Carefully put. I guess by "legitimately" you refer to tenths of thousands NGOs installed everywhere. Also sanctions is technically a legitimate means of pressure. CIA operations to overthrow governments might be technically legitimate. Or selling arms to Taiwan, regime changing Pakistan, Bangladesh, occupying part of Syria and more. Oh and supplying arms to Israel for continuing genocide, this is legitimate too. Now they are considering to sanction the whole country of Georgia to punish them for electing the wrong side. And that is also legitimate technically speaking.
worldpopulationreview.com
Actually the number of countries I found was closer to 170. It can be misleading as for some countries the number of troops are too small. Maybe it's more telling to give the number of military bases.
"The U.S. military maintains hundreds of installations, both inside the United States and overseas (with at least 128 military bases located outside of its national territory as of July 2024)"
Or the numbers of troops overseas which is arguably at least ~170,000. Which is a huge number.
brilliantmaps.com
en.wikipedia.org
I know. I will.
Secondly US imperialism is a well documented fact, not propaganda.
I'm equally really, really tired to get accused of Russian or whatever propaganda for everything outside the US mainstream narrative.
It's counter productive for the engagement and not a noble tactic. Not too respectful either.
Every country or bloc sells its propaganda and you reproduce your fair share in my view. But I choose not to say it (or at least not repeat it again and again) out of respect. Not to you or anyone else here.
Carefully put. I guess by "legitimately" you refer to tenths of thousands NGOs installed everywhere. Also sanctions is technically a legitimate means of pressure. CIA operations to overthrow governments might be technically legitimate. Or selling arms to Taiwan, regime changing Pakistan, Bangladesh, occupying part of Syria and more. Oh and supplying arms to Israel for continuing genocide, this is legitimate too. Now they are considering to sanction the whole country of Georgia to punish them for electing the wrong side. And that is also legitimate technically speaking.
US Troop Presence by Country 2024
Actually the number of countries I found was closer to 170. It can be misleading as for some countries the number of troops are too small. Maybe it's more telling to give the number of military bases.
"The U.S. military maintains hundreds of installations, both inside the United States and overseas (with at least 128 military bases located outside of its national territory as of July 2024)"
Or the numbers of troops overseas which is arguably at least ~170,000. Which is a huge number.
Map Showing The Number Of Active-Duty US Troops Serving Overseas - Brilliant Maps
The map above shows where the over 168,000 active-duty US troops serving overseas are stationed. And I bet some of the countries will come as a bit of a surprise:
brilliantmaps.com
List of American military installations - Wikipedia
I know. I will.
I can't wait.
If you're so tired of it, the easiest thing to do is stop doing it. I laid out for you in two long, researched posts with sources linked, that you are repeating Russian propaganda, knowingly or unknowingly. So maybe instead of wasting your apparently very limited time on making posts here that people take apart, you should do some actual research on the positions you're sharing here and see if there is actually something to them.
Meliegree
Evening The Odds.
Please remember that propaganda is not (only) telling lies. Propaganda is also presenting facts in a selective way or framing them according to your own discretion. For example, if a country agreed to have another country's army stationed there and we present it as a negative action of the country that sent its army like that - this is a textbook example of propaganda. Why?
We present a legal agreement between two countries to convince people that the country opposing us is evil.
This is nothing new - this is exactly how Russia operated, e.g. in 2010-2014 in Ukraine. It presented everything as imperialist actions of the US or NATO in the Russian media, convincing citizens, e.g. of Donbas, to oppose it. This, among other things, gave Putin an argument to send troops there.
The argument was almost 1:1 identical to the one presented by a certain user here.
We present a legal agreement between two countries to convince people that the country opposing us is evil.
This is nothing new - this is exactly how Russia operated, e.g. in 2010-2014 in Ukraine. It presented everything as imperialist actions of the US or NATO in the Russian media, convincing citizens, e.g. of Donbas, to oppose it. This, among other things, gave Putin an argument to send troops there.
The argument was almost 1:1 identical to the one presented by a certain user here.
____no5
Free Man
@Meliegree
Sure I have no doubt that there is Russian, Chinese or whatever propaganda. We can spot it. I just want to make sure that you understand that there is Western propaganda equally dangerous if not more.
Propaganda from autocracies is easy to spot. But when coming from Democracies is more sophisticated thus more dangerous. Do you remember when Nordstream blew up that all media started to absurdly blame Russia as if this was the most self-evident assumption ever? What is this if not orchestrated multi-national propaganda?
Especially when the initial reactions where thank you USA, i.e., Polish MEP now-deleted Twitter post?
Or pictures like this in the German media like if Putin is being behind everything? And educated people buying that thing? This is unprecedented man.
Anyway, I posted something propaganda-related here, you can take a look if you like.
The truth is usually somewhere in the middle, maybe not 50-50 middle but also not 90-10 middle. Also for Ukraine war. Let's not forget that.
Sure I have no doubt that there is Russian, Chinese or whatever propaganda. We can spot it. I just want to make sure that you understand that there is Western propaganda equally dangerous if not more.
Propaganda from autocracies is easy to spot. But when coming from Democracies is more sophisticated thus more dangerous. Do you remember when Nordstream blew up that all media started to absurdly blame Russia as if this was the most self-evident assumption ever? What is this if not orchestrated multi-national propaganda?
Especially when the initial reactions where thank you USA, i.e., Polish MEP now-deleted Twitter post?
Or pictures like this in the German media like if Putin is being behind everything? And educated people buying that thing? This is unprecedented man.
Anyway, I posted something propaganda-related here, you can take a look if you like.
The truth is usually somewhere in the middle, maybe not 50-50 middle but also not 90-10 middle. Also for Ukraine war. Let's not forget that.
Meliegree
Evening The Odds.
Truth is truth. Saying something else is kind of dangerous.
As a curiosity - such statements are also often an example of propaganda aimed at devaluing the word 'truth'. It is easier to sow confusion when 'truth' is not always 'truth' but in 1 case out of 10 or 5 out of 10 something else.
Facts can be 50-50 in someone's favor or 10-90. But truth is truth. Example - even if 50% of the facts indicated Ukraine's guilt, it is true that a nuclear power attacked a smaller neighbor and is committing war crimes there.
As a curiosity - such statements are also often an example of propaganda aimed at devaluing the word 'truth'. It is easier to sow confusion when 'truth' is not always 'truth' but in 1 case out of 10 or 5 out of 10 something else.
Facts can be 50-50 in someone's favor or 10-90. But truth is truth. Example - even if 50% of the facts indicated Ukraine's guilt, it is true that a nuclear power attacked a smaller neighbor and is committing war crimes there.
I mean, the argument "the truth is somewhere inbetween" can also be abused. Imagine one person states a correct fact, the other person doesn't like it and states the exact opposite - then the correct fact is still correct, and the truth isn't in the middle. It's still with the correct fact.
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