Russia invades Ukraine

Yax said:
I like Chomsky as much as the next, but like Azas said, intellectuals don't always get it right; like Chomsky with his nativism linguistics (universal grammar theory), his big claim to fame which was disproven (some sentiments of it still carries weight though) in the 70's.
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First, he may be an all time top 10 intellectual. Of course this doesn't make him right. We can be sure though that he is very knowledgeable, he is on the right side (left) of the spectrum, he did his homework before say anything and he is not bound to the popular opinion or short sighted interest of his country. We doesn't need money or fame, he is not afraid to speak out uncomfortable truths. He is deeply political but not a politician. For all above every-time he speaks I listen carefully.

I'm not familiar with his academic work, I admire him for his ideas & relentless activism.
 
Xi accepted to talk with Zelensky first time after the war has started. Chinese source. US source. This could lead to any direction, let's wait and see, but I won't hold my breath. It would be interesting to read the full transcript of the call.
 
____no5 said:
First, he may be an all time top 10 intellectual. Of course this doesn't make him right. We can be sure though that he is very knowledgeable, he is on the right side (left) of the spectrum, he did his homework before say anything and he is not bound to the popular opinion or short sighted interest of his country. We doesn't need money or fame, he is not afraid to speak out uncomfortable truths. He is deeply political but not a politician. For all above every-time he speaks I listen carefully.

I'm not familiar with his academic work, I admire him for his ideas & relentless activism.
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In other words, there are probably like two sentences where you're not wrong in that post, but whatever, do what you must, mate. :hello:
 
Because Chomsky pushes very pro kremlin narratives. Really, You don't see it? To me, to discard him, is enough after what he did said about NATO. If he really believes it, then he is useful idiot, but there's other options too. He may be bribed to say so. You can't discard russia's money influence on westerners.
 
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Azas said:
Because Chomsky pushes very pro kremlin narratives. Really, You don't see it? To me, to discard him, is enough after what he did said about NATO.
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But this is exactly my point. We shouldn’t discard someone just because he is saying something else than we like to hear.
You have to see the man his past views, his integrity and Tsomsky ticks all of the boxes. I don’t agree to everything he says but I listen to him with respect all the time, because of that integrity.

Since Ukraine war has started as soon as someone is not in line with the “official” Western narrative is immediately label as pro Putin and discarded. Which is completely dangerous and non constructive approach.
 
____no5 said:
Since Ukraine war has started as soon as someone is not in line with the “official” Western narrative is immediately label as pro Putin and discarded. Which is completely dangerous and non constructive approach.
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When russian army kills, tortures and rapes innocent people? It is called to separate the wheat from the chaff. Sometimes black is only black and there's no point to listen to someone who's acting like demagogue and with his opinion only helps to spread the russian narrative.
 
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To be fair, Chomsky has been anti NATO and critical of US foreign policy and military action/projection since the 60's.

.
 
this fact does not rehabilitate him the slightest. So, he was wrong from the get-go :)
 
I think Chomsky is wrong in some aspects, right in others, but in terms of NATO as an organization and its stance on Russian imperialism, I am very much for it. However being critical of NATO and US foreign policy is not the same as running the Kremlin narrative, although they often overlap; it is after all the narrative that Kremlin has been pushing forever, a few years in the 90's aside. But as No5 is saying, you should not automatically disregard every aspect of criticism as being pro-Russia. In terms of the war itself though and Russian imperialism, it is crystal clear what Putin is doing, but you can still long for a world where NATO is not needed and the use of interventions and whatnot is much more sparse. The idea of mutually assured destruction is sick at best, but the world is such a horrible place it's... Needed.
 
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I had this really long post written, unfinished, about the hypocrisy and predictability of certain Western elites and about how Chomsky is a joke who's not being také seriously pretty much anywhere outside the US. It got deleted because of forum limitations of cache, whatever.

Anyway, you guys who love him because he's so clever and on the "right" side of the spectrum, you shouldn't miss this, you're gonna love this.

https://www.newstatesman.com/the-we...w-ukraine-free-actor-united-states-determines
 
Man, he is really out there, throwing around guesswork to fit into a pre-conceived narrative. He is trailing off. Lol @ Sweden and Finland application to NATO having nothing to do with Russia. It is specifically the only reason.
 
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Okay, fuck Chomsky himself, this is a more general rant, but I have to make it, because I'm seriously pissed off. If I get banned for something within here, so be it.

I come from a country which has been betrayed both by the West (Munich Agreement) and by Russia (40 or so years of belonging under USSR control). We have experience with Russian propaganda being spread out to fuck up and create chaos in other states since the times of the czarhood. Ever since we became an actual country in 1918, Moscow had financed and owned 1/4 of our greatest anti-systemic political party (KSČ). First they helped to finance and do a Communist putsch and when we started to get out of it, they (and other states of the Eastern bloc) invaded us in 1968 to keep us under their control with force. We have had access to their documents, later, including the fact that Eastern bloc governments actively supported (financially, personally, otherwise) various leftist and "peace" groups in the West. They "fight" with words like "peace", they fight with desinformation.
Although it's never been confirmed definitely, it is being alleged that Protocols of the Elders of Sion, the most famous anti-Jewish conspiracy rubbish might have been written by the Czarist police, to pre-emptively fight the Bolsheviks and their revolution (who were very often of Jewish heritage). But that's more than hundred years ago, we have had the fucking experience with Russia for just as long. With their propaganda, their rhetorics. We also can see - being closer and all, than the average American - that Russia is mostly a failed, crumbling, cleptocracy state. I know many people who've been there. It's a hellhole.

The war is really close to us. Many of our people are helping there in one way or another. Some are even helping to fight, some are providing humanitarian help. Every Czech city, a big one or a small one, hosts at least some Ukrainian refugees. We know about the kids dying in rubbles, torture chambers, mass civilian graves, soldiers raping women repeatedly "so it's going to teach your sub-race not to breed ever again".


We see the Russian propaganda bullshit every day. We have people here who are on their payroll, or who are just conjuncturalists and want to put their spin on it. But we can smell the bullshit.
We see the caricatures of Zelensky with hooked Jewish nose being portrayed as a spider in his net. We see the anti-Nato bullshit "justification".

The only reason we are glad to be in the NATO, the only reason why other countries want to be in is because of fucking Russia.

We also remember, that the biggest mistake Ukraine ever did was signing that agreement in 1991 to give up their nuclear weapons for a promise of their borders as those were then. Yes, they were idiots, they trusted Russians ... and they trusted the West.
Now Germany is dragging their feet in helping, because they wanted to "go green" and closed their nuclear power plants and suddenly they realised - huh, we can't really do it without coal and Russian gas. But I digress.


So, this is with all my heart to both American "conservatives" and "lefties" alike - get your fucking head out of your ass and stop thinking that everything is just about your precious country. You know fuck all, you are an armchair theoretist, a useful idiot, we really don't care. You are stupid just by the act of opening your filthy mouth. Could you, like ONCE not have an expert opinion or something that half a world away?
I have seen so many retarded buggerations of a hot take from Americans who have mostly shit in their mouths. No, not everything is about you. Not everything is about your agenda. Don't use an actual, disgusting attack by imperialist cunts where people suffer terribly to further "your" propaganda, your worldview.

Yes, there are pro-Russian "conservatives" and fuck them, but there are also pro-Russian leftists and fuck them also. Yes, we live in a time when you have to argue with some insane edgy lefty cunt from the US arguing the case for Stalin. Sending them the reports of women in prison for political reasons listening through the walls as their malnourished newborns were slowly dying in the next room. And they laugh at you, because they know better and they're so edgy and they must live in the terrible "West".

(and before you say anything, yes, I am an anti-capitalist, anti-current West, being a classical conservative and Trad-Cath. But I'm not an idiot.)

I don't care about your "discussion", discuss with my ass. Fuck you and thank you very much.

I'll leave these here, as a kind of tl;dr

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JudasMyGuide said:
Okay, fuck Chomsky himself, this is a more general rant, but I have to make it, because I'm seriously pissed off. If I get banned for something within here, so be it.

I come from a country which has been betrayed both by the West (Munich Agreement) and by Russia (40 or so years of belonging under USSR control). We have experience with Russian propaganda being spread out to fuck up and create chaos in other states since the times of the czarhood. Ever since we became an actual country in 1918, Moscow had financed and owned 1/4 of our greatest anti-systemic political party (KSČ). First they helped to finance and do a Communist putsch and when we started to get out of it, they (and other states of the Eastern bloc) invaded us in 1968 to keep us under their control with force. We have had access to their documents, later, including the fact that Eastern bloc governments actively supported (financially, personally, otherwise) various leftist and "peace" groups in the West. They "fight" with words like "peace", they fight with desinformation.
Although it's never been confirmed definitely, it is being alleged that Protocols of the Elders of Sion, the most famous anti-Jewish conspiracy rubbish might have been written by the Czarist police, to pre-emptively fight the Bolsheviks and their revolution (who were very often of Jewish heritage). But that's more than hundred years ago, we have had the fucking experience with Russia for just as long. With their propaganda, their rhetorics. We also can see - being closer and all, than the average American - that Russia is mostly a failed, crumbling, cleptocracy state. I know many people who've been there. It's a hellhole.

The war is really close to us. Many of our people are helping there in one way or another. Some are even helping to fight, some are providing humanitarian help. Every Czech city, a big one or a small one, hosts at least some Ukrainian refugees. We know about the kids dying in rubbles, torture chambers, mass civilian graves, soldiers raping women repeatedly "so it's going to teach your sub-race not to breed ever again".


We see the Russian propaganda bullshit every day. We have people here who are on their payroll, or who are just conjuncturalists and want to put their spin on it. But we can smell the bullshit.
We see the caricatures of Zelensky with hooked Jewish nose being portrayed as a spider in his net. We see the anti-Nato bullshit "justification".

The only reason we are glad to be in the NATO, the only reason why other countries want to be in is because of fucking Russia.

We also remember, that the biggest mistake Ukraine ever did was signing that agreement in 1991 to give up their nuclear weapons for a promise of their borders as those were then. Yes, they were idiots, they trusted Russians ... and they trusted the West.
Now Germany is dragging their feet in helping, because they wanted to "go green" and closed their nuclear power plants and suddenly they realised - huh, we can't really do it without coal and Russian gas. But I digress.


So, this is with all my heart to both American "conservatives" and "lefties" alike - get your fucking head out of your ass and stop thinking that everything is just about your precious country. You know fuck all, you are an armchair theoretist, a useful idiot, we really don't care. You are stupid just by the act of opening your filthy mouth. Could you, like ONCE not have an expert opinion or something that half a world away?
I have seen so many retarded buggerations of a hot take from Americans who have mostly shit in their mouths. No, not everything is about you. Not everything is about your agenda. Don't use an actual, disgusting attack by imperialist cunts where people suffer terribly to further "your" propaganda, your worldview.

Yes, there are pro-Russian "conservatives" and fuck them, but there are also pro-Russian leftists and fuck them also. Yes, we live in a time when you have to argue with some insane edgy lefty cunt from the US arguing the case for Stalin. Sending them the reports of women in prison for political reasons listening through the walls as their malnourished newborns were slowly dying in the next room. And they laugh at you, because they know better and they're so edgy and they must live in the terrible "West".

(and before you say anything, yes, I am an anti-capitalist, anti-current West, being a classical conservative and Trad-Cath. But I'm not an idiot.)

I don't care about your "discussion", discuss with my ass. Fuck you and thank you very much.

I'll leave these here, as a kind of tl;dr

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I agree with you. We live near russia and we know this country too well. Just one word: Mordor.
Indecisiveness of the West kills. F16's and ATACAMS for Ukraine!
 
This has just popped on my Twitter feed. For the first time. Universe is clearly listening, ha ha.
(Gary Kasparov whom I follow, retweeted this)
In fact, this shows, that Chomsky's spiteful ideas are actively afloat. He is certainly useful for ruzzian propaganda.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652789971936325641
 
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Sir, You don't laugh here, but throw this information channel (Chomsky) out of your use. :cool:
 
Yax said:
I object to this meme. ”I am a failed Linguistics professor” is more appropriate.
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No need to resort to this. Chomsky's linguistic ideas certainly aren't universally accepted, but he's far from a failed linguistics professor.

Chomsky is definitely not stupid. But his intellectual persona is a bit of a fossil, as it was shaped by the immense shock Americans experienced in the late 1960s and 70s with Kent State, My Lai, Watergate and all that - so of course he will think of American politics as the very rotten core of evil. And you know what? I even agree with him on that. I hate imperialism, and wish America would leave other countries alone too - but just because I hate American imperialism doesn't mean that I should, in any way, be even an iota more sympathetic towards Russian imperialism.

Chomsky's main weakness when it comes to political commentary is that he can't take a non-American view on things. In his mind, everything that happens in the world is in some way or form caused by America. Other countries have no agency of their own, everything they do is a reaction to America, not an action in their own interest. In the interview @____no5 posted, he is once asked to take the Ukrainian point of view, and he proves himself incapable of doing so, which I find quite striking. It always comes back to America. For an American intellectual, this may be okay, if he's talking about American politics, but as someone who is trying in some way to explain how the world works, this limited view is harmful. This is exacerbated by the way he cherry-picks historical examples to argue for his views. Again, in his interview he talks about the Vienna Congress and Versailles, but does not acknowledge the failure of Appeasement policy in 1938. In his commentary on the Ukraine Invasion, he works a lot with logic and theory, and he has an unparalleled grasp of this, but he doesn't work with facts and empiricism. He doesn't seem to be following what's going on, and I have the feeling he thinks this isn't important. He makes the same mistake as everyone calling for negotiations does: He doesn't acknowledge that Russia will not negotiate.
 
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